Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1110152898

From: (Raymond Whritenour)
Subject: RE: [DNA] Kim TallBear and David Bowden
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:48:18 -0500
In-Reply-To:'s message of Sun, 06 Mar 2005 22:55:05+0000


Before you start moderating the list, please tell me why this post
(below) from you has any more to do with DNA, than the mixed-race issues
we've been discussing concerning Whites and American Indians?

There are reams upon reams of messages, on this message board, about
Celtic and Irish history and prehistory, which have absolutely NOTHING
to do with DNA. But, we have a few back-and-forths about Native
Americans and you can't take it. Give me a break.

You can't get to the truth if you let inaccurate statements stand

Ray Whritenour


Subject: Re: [DNA] Irish surname looks at Celtic/Viking Distinctions
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 10:21:16 +0000

John is correct about the lack of support for Brian Boru. The revolt
that caused the Battle of Clontarf in 1014 was not lead by Vikings but
by the Leinster men. Many Connaght clans refused to join Brian, and the
Ulster forces (under Malseichlainn) observed the battle but did not join
in. Brian, incidentally, had Viking forces fighting with him as well as
against him since he had contingents from the Viking cities of Limerick
and Cork on his side. All the prinicpal coastal cities of Ireland were
founded by Vikings, not just Dublin.

But to get back to DNA and the intermixture of Vikings and Irish, among
Brian's multiple wives was Gormlaith, the sister of the king of
Leinster, who bore him a son. Gormlaith previously had been married to
Olaf Ironshoe, Viking king of Dublin, and bore Olaf a son, sitric
Silkbeard. It was Sitric who enlisted the Vikings of the Isle of Man and
elsewhere to fight with Leinster forces.
My point is, there was much intermarriage, or intermixing , between
Vikings and Irish from 800 AD on. Even in Iceland. I don't recall the
source, but I remember reading that when the Vikings "discovered"
Iceland there already were Irish monks there, and monks in those days
probably had women with them. Plus which, the Iceland Vikings who raided
Ireland surely took back Irish women as slaves.

-------------- Original message --------------

> The OConnor's along with many other Clans ( not tribes) did not
> Brian in his fight against the Danes. The OBrians did not exist until
Brian and
> they were not traditional High Kings of Ireland.
> Researching Connors, OConnor, Histon, Kennealy, Heffernan, Foley,
> deConde, Sugrue, Shackrow, Griffin, Shea and Keating

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