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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1110678945


From: "Dale E. Reddick" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Strasbourg
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:58:36 -0500
References: <031220052123.26340.42335DE7000422A9000066E42205886014050B989A0E00@comcast.net> <004b01c52768$9f04c860$9c50b18e@phryne>
In-Reply-To: <004b01c52768$9f04c860$9c50b18e@phryne>


Hey Bernard,

The Alamanni were only one amongst a whole, great number of Germanic
tribes and tribal confederations. They, along with Quadi, Marcomanni,
Goths, Franks, Vandals (and I can't recall all of the rest of them) were
not arrayed underneath a single banner or leadership.

Well, that is - if your "Alemannen" are not the same as the Alamanni.

Dale E. Reddick
________________________________

Bernard Burgey wrote:

>Perhaps it would help if we think of Germany in the French term "Alemagne".
>This term was coined in about 800 AD. When the French where closer to the
>truth of the population, then 1000 years before the Romans.
>The Alemannen are a confederation of all tribes, not only Teutonic Germans,
>who lived up North.
>
>Regards
>Bernard
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 5:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [DNA] Strasbourg
>
>
>
>
>>Ken:
>>
>>I draw your attention to a post by Bonnie some weeks ago that go litle
>>
>>
>response - but it sure made my ears perk up. The bottom line is that the
>best we might expect in terms of continuity of population from 400 years
>ago to today is perhaps 20%. Thus the population of Strasbourg may bear
>but little resemblance to 1000 AD. In addition that region see sawed back
>and forth between France and Germany almost constantly in the 1600s causing
>widespread dislocation. Is it not fair to conclude that the evidence is
>just not solid enough to extrapolate from today back 1000 years?
>
>
>>It all gets rather complicated since I have traced my ancestors from that
>>
>>
>region to Switzerland - all of them. Also my Jung (Young) family who
>resided just across the border from France in Germany (near Zweibrucken)
>may actually have been LeJeune and adopted the German translation Jung
>later. Their haplotype matches more French than German (interesting
>considering the size of the databases) and so are they French or are they
>German or are we willing to admit that we just don't know.
>
>
>>Examining haplotypes from Zweibrucken or Strasbourg may be showing you
>>
>>
>ancient French or ancient German or other DNA signatures. I really dispair
>that for example we cannot justify using Friesland of today to "represent"
>the stock from which the Anglo - Saxons emerged. Historical sources would
>indicate that Sweden, Norway and Finland were probably more "sheltered"
>from these constant wars and movements of people, and therefore represent a
>much better estimate of the region in Scandinavian times. I am not sure
>about all this, but I do think that there are reasons for concern.
>
>
>>David F.
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------- Original message --------------
>>
>>
>>
>>>For those today discussing names and genes from Alsace-Lorraine, the
>>>
>>>
>yhrd
>
>
>>>database recently added a bunch of yhaplotypes from Strasbourg which I
>>>
>>>
>believe
>
>
>>>is the capitol or center of that province of France. There is also the
>>>
>>>
>top 20
>
>
>>>hit parade of most common haplotypes from the Strasbourg contribution.
>>>
>>>
>You
>
>
>>>might find it interesting. Look at a good Atlas. There are still a
>>>
>>>
>large
>
>
>>>number of villages in this province with obviously German names. But
>>>
>>>
>France has
>
>
>>>reached its "natural border" on the Rhine, so everyone can relax.
>>>
>>>The Strasbourg haplotypes seem dominated by R1b, but it is the
>>>
>>>
>Anglo-Saxon
>
>
>>>a.k.a. "North Sea" variety of R1b with DYS 390 = 23 and DYS 391 = 11
>>>
>>>
>which is
>
>
>>>numero uno. I1c appears a couple times, and there are a couple very
>>>
>>>
>unusual
>
>
>>>haplotypes which I don't recognize. Just like Paris a couple weeks ago.
>>>
>>>
>So I
>
>
>>>widen the challenge: can someone identify the odd haplotypes in Paris
>>>
>>>
>and/or
>
>
>>>Strasbourg?
>>>
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>
>>==============================
>>Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the
>>areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months.
>>Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>==============================
>Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the
>areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months.
>Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx
>
>
>
>


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