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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1110777323


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: : Jewish Genes and Jewish Genealogy
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:15:23 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: 6667


Beth:

OK, here's is what I am hearing you say: Some
European non-Jews converted to Judaism, then
intermarried with the Royal Family and converted back
to Christianity? And these non-Jewish English R1b's
match Jewish R1b's who also claim Davidic descent?
Please let me know if I got this straight.

I have very little information on the Davidic project,
other than their results have been a mix of mostly
non-Israelite results: R1b, R1a, Q and I. MtDNA data
indicates the same. I'm unclear whether the group
consists entirely of those of Jewish descent, or
whether some non-Jews are also participating.

Ellen Coffman


> > [Original Message]
> > From: <>
> > To: <>
> > Date: 3/13/2005 10:37:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: : Jewish Genes and Jewish
> Genealogy
> >
> > David and Listers,
> > Please note the wording I used in my earlier
> posting "They (the Royal
> > Stewarts) believe they have in their genealogy a
> direct link to Makir,
> the Jewish
> > head of the Talmudic Academy in Narbonne". This
> particular Makir was
> > ostensibly (according to Jewish historical
> sources) of Davidic (King
> David) descent
> > and did arrive in France from the Babylonian
> Talmudic center. Thus, the
> Royal
> > Stewarts, who do believe that Makir is their male
> line forbear, do
> therefore
> > believe that they are of Davidic descent.
> > Ironically, I actually disagree with them on
> both counts. I believe
> their
> > genealogy is 'off' by one generation and that
> Makir is actually the
> direct
> > male ancestor of the Count of Toulouse and the
> Baldwin/Baudoin family
> (who were,
> > also ironically, Kings of Jerusalem during the
> Crusades.)
> > HOWEVER, I also want to report that extensive
> DNA testing is being
> done
> > (not by me, but by two other researchers, one of
> whom is based in Israel)
> on
> > several known Jewish lines, both Sephardic and
> Ashkenazic, who claim
> descent
> > from King David. As I think I have mentioned
> before, one cluster of
> purported
> > Davidic DNA is R1b (WAMH and actually matching
> Royal Stewart) while the
> other is
> > I1a (or b) (sorry, I constantly invert these).
> > What I believe is that the R1b Davidic
> cluster (which I also match
> > paternally at 25
> > markers) is derived from converts to Judaism in
> Southern France
> (Narbonne)
> > around 900 CE who then believed themselves
> metaphorically to be "David's
> sons",
> > since their teacher, Rabbi Makir, was of Davidic
> descent. As time went
> by, the
> > metaphoric aspect of being David's sons was
> forgotten, and these folks
> came
> > to think they were actually descended from King
> David. This is where I
> > hypothesize the Royal Stewart belief in being of
> Davidic descent
> originated, as well.
> > However, R1b converts or not, it is important
> to remember that these
> folks
> > did become Jews at the moment of their conversion
> -- just as Ellen has
> > pointed out many other folks became Jews by
> conversion over the
> centuries. Beth
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about
> your ancestors, find
> > marriage announcements and more. Learn more:
> > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death
> Records.
> New content added every business day. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx
>
>


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