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From: "Steven C. Perkins" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: : Jewish Genes and Jewish Genealogy
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:32:22 -0600
In-Reply-To: <410-22005311441145703@earthlink.net>


Beth:

Look at the past issues of either the _NEHGS Journal_
or _The American Genealogist_. There is an article
by Nathaniel Taylor, PhD, and a history prof at Harvard,
which shows that the Makir legend is not valid genealogy.

Regards,

Steven C. Perkins


On 13 Mar 2005 at 23:11, robert mclaren wrote:

Date forwarded: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:12:12 -0700
Date sent: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:11:45 -0500
Forwarded by:
From: robert mclaren <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: : Jewish Genes and Jewish Genealogy
To:
Send reply to:

> Beth,
>
> I have to disagree with you. I'm not aware of any of the Clan
> Genealogists who believe this direct link to Makir. You have passed on
> from established, proven genealogies into myth. While I'm glad to see
> that DNA testing is continuing on Davidic lines, I will be amazed if any
> of this gives any proof to the myths.
>
> Bob McLaren
> Chairman, Genealogy Committee
> Clan MacLaren Society of North America.
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <>
> > To: <>
> > Date: 3/13/2005 10:37:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: : Jewish Genes and Jewish Genealogy
> >
> > David and Listers,
> > Please note the wording I used in my earlier posting "They (the
> > Royal
> > Stewarts) believe they have in their genealogy a direct link to Makir,
> the Jewish
> > head of the Talmudic Academy in Narbonne". This particular Makir was
> > ostensibly (according to Jewish historical sources) of Davidic (King
> David) descent
> > and did arrive in France from the Babylonian Talmudic center. Thus, the
> Royal
> > Stewarts, who do believe that Makir is their male line forbear, do
> therefore
> > believe that they are of Davidic descent.
> > Ironically, I actually disagree with them on both counts. I believe
> their
> > genealogy is 'off' by one generation and that Makir is actually the
> direct
> > male ancestor of the Count of Toulouse and the Baldwin/Baudoin family
> (who were,
> > also ironically, Kings of Jerusalem during the Crusades.)
> > HOWEVER, I also want to report that extensive DNA testing is being
> done
> > (not by me, but by two other researchers, one of whom is based in
> > Israel)
> on
> > several known Jewish lines, both Sephardic and Ashkenazic, who claim
> descent
> > from King David. As I think I have mentioned before, one cluster of
> purported
> > Davidic DNA is R1b (WAMH and actually matching Royal Stewart) while the
> other is
> > I1a (or b) (sorry, I constantly invert these).
> > What I believe is that the R1b Davidic cluster (which I also match
> > paternally at 25
> > markers) is derived from converts to Judaism in Southern France
> (Narbonne)
> > around 900 CE who then believed themselves metaphorically to be "David's
> sons",
> > since their teacher, Rabbi Makir, was of Davidic descent. As time went
> by, the
> > metaphoric aspect of being David's sons was forgotten, and these folks
> came
> > to think they were actually descended from King David. This is where I
> > hypothesize the Royal Stewart belief in being of Davidic descent
> originated, as well.
> > However, R1b converts or not, it is important to remember that these
> folks
> > did become Jews at the moment of their conversion -- just as Ellen has
> > pointed out many other folks became Jews by conversion over the
> centuries. Beth
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find
> > marriage announcements and more. Learn more:
> > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records.
> New content added every business day. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx
>



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