GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1111433555
From: Gary Felix <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Is There a Third Variety of I1c?
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:32:35 -0800 (PST)
Ken, I have 19,19 at YCAIIa,b. I have been SNP'ed as I1c aka I2. I1c represents 6 of 76 of those with ancestry from Mexico (http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm). When I received my results over a year and a half ago I concluded that the results were from the Visigoths migrations to Spain 1500 years ago. The ancestors of the Visigoths left Sweden 2000 years ago. They traveled south into Turkey splitting up into the Ostrogoths and Visigoths. While the Ostrogoths remained in and around Turkey the Visigoths traveled to Italy conquering Rome and proceeding to France helping to drive the Huns from Europe before then traveling south to conquer Spain driving the remaining Romans out. They adopted Christianity and assimulated into Spanish society.
I believe Ydna results showing a significant presence in Southern Europe, unlike I1a substanciates this migration and is characteristic of a highly mobile people.
Mexico DNA Project
Ken Nordtvedt <> wrote:
There seems to be a third variety of I1c, but which is difficult to verify if definately of haplogroup I1c (FTDNA's reclassified I2 subclade in haplogroup I) because one has to give up one of the key marker constraints in identifying it in the databases. Normal I1c has YCAIIa,b = 19,21. This new variety has 19,19 at this marker.
Altogether the fixed marker repeats used to pull it out of databases are: DYS 388 = 13, DYS 455 = 11, DYS 391 = 10, DYS 392 = 12, DYS 393 = 14; YCAIIa,b = 19,19; plus any 7th marker permitted to vary over its repeat values in order to find the distributions of repeats.
Some modal values at the classic markers were found to be: DYS 385a,b = 15,15; DYS 389i,ii = 13,29; DYS 19 = 16.
It seems to be an old variety of I1c with substantial diversity of repeat values at a number of markers. It also could serve as bridge between the "north" and "south" varieties of I1c because of some shared modal values with each of these other two varieties. There are also a few markers where its modal value differs from both "north" and "south" I1c.
27 haplotypes of this type were found in Sorenson. Continental pedigrees included 2 from different parts of Germany, 1 Dane, 1 Swede, I Italian, 1 French. Of the SNP tagged I1c haplotypes from the Rootsi et al paper, a small number were also measured at YCAIIa,b; one was 19,19 and from Albania. Several I1c haplotypes from Capelli's collection of 1800 British haplotypes appears to be of this variety.
I ask Whit and others who have run across haplotypes with YCAIIa,b 19,19 and the other markers I used above for identification whether they believe any other haplogroups could be contributing to this population?
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