GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-04 > 1112762529


From: "Brian D. Hamman" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: R1a in Germany
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:42:09 -0500
References: <016801c53996$7d9e2140$eb409145@Ken1>


Yeah, perhaps the 15,25,11 R1a just happened to be the majority of a
particular R1a-rich Slavic tribe that pushed its' way west along the
"Germanic" Baltic coast and then north into east Denmark and across the
Baltic into Sweden, and eventually NW from Sweden into Norway where it
settled long enough (right up to present!) to make it easily the most common
R1a subgroup in that country? I did notice while looking at YHRD last
weekend, that the 15,25,11 does seem to be a little more concentrated along
the route described above. If 15,25,11 got to Norway as recently as
600-700AD when it spread into Germany, it apparently then moved very quickly
into the Scottish Highlands, in order for Somerled to (apparently?) forget
his Norwegian roots a few hundred years later. For some reason I felt that
it came to Scandinavia earlier than 600-700AD, but don't know why.

The high concentration of 15,25,11 in Lithuania is intriguing--perhaps it's
a clue that the Slavic tribe heavy in 15,25,11 R1a that moved west and
eventually into Norway, started in Lithuania? Of course, it could simply
be a totally different variety of 15,25,11 than the one that spread to
Norway--I could not find anything conclusive by comparing Lithuania vs.
Norway, though, when using the 9 markers in YHRD or the few relevant
25-marker haplotypes that are in Ysearch. As you said, we need lots more
haplotypes from these areas, with more markers!

Brian


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Re: R1a in Germany


> The Slavs originally lived in rather confined quarters around the junction
> of present-day Poland, Byelarus, and Ukraine. Around 6th century A.D.
> they
> agressively expanded in all directions, eventually bringing Slavic
> language
> and genes to present-day Balkans, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Russia, and
> even into areas which today are eastern parts of Germany. It looks from
> today's distribution of y-haplogroups that these Slavic tribes carried
> mainly I1b and R1a. As to sub-varieties; the least amount of research has
> been done so far on the fine details of R1a and I1b of Eastern Europe.
> For
> starters the databases are very weak in those areas. We really don't have
> many 37 or 43 marker haplotypes from there. Someday we may have some
> wonderful surprises about what actually happened in Eastern Europe when we
> get better haplotype data for the area.
>
> I don't know when R1a came to Scandinavia. I think the route was along
> the
> south shore of the Baltic because of the low level of R1a in Finland and
> lower level in Sweden than Norway. But that's one of the things I'm
> trying
> to figure out. I figure from the statistics in Norway, that R1a people
> are
> responsible for about 25 percent of my grandfather's genes.
>
> Ken
>
>

This thread: