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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-05 > 1115319886


From: "M True" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Assistance with Results Interpretation
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 20:04:46 +0100
References: <004d01c5514b$357b5780$2dd4ae51@oemcomputer> <003701c5516a$ef1b1580$72a0bf43@YOURF8387228BF>


Thank you very much Phil, Eldon, Bob and David for your extremely useful
input,

I was sort of "blind" testing you by just giving you the data without any of
the background to see what your initial feelings were about the closeness of
the match. Anyway here is the lowdown;

1. Surname origin: Barlow is a local name associated with three places in
northern England. Derby, West Riding of Yorkshire and South Lancashire.

2. Two of these Barlow families in the table have traditionally traced
their paternal lines back to Robert de Barlow born c1275, Barlow Hall,
Barlow, Chorlton-cum-Hardy, (south) Lancashire. One of these families from
Ireland still use a coat of arms today based on the Lancashire Barlow coat
of arms, the other being the Barlow family of Fairfield CT.

3. The Eckersley surname comes [apparently] from a lost place name in
(south) Lancashire in the parish of Leigh.

4. There is a known non-paternity event in my family with the birth of my
earliest ancestor James Eckersley b1815 who is described in a later land
lease as "the natural son of Mary Eckersley". Natural being the term at the
time for illegitimate.

5. The Barlow with whom my match is closest traces his family back to James
Barlow b1785 in Ainsworth (south Lancs). He has the ancestral haplotype for
this group of Barlow families. (for a view of Ainsworth and other places
mentioned see the map at the following link).

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&GridE=-2.35910&GridN=53
.59020&lon=-2.35910&lat=53.59020&db=freegaz&cidr_client=none&lang=&place=Ain
sworth,Greater+Manchester&pc=&advanced=&client=public&addr2=&quicksearch=Ain
sworth&addr3=&scale=100000&addr1=

6. James Eckersley b1815 grew up in Blackford Bridge 4 miles east of
Ainsworth. He lived in Radcliffe 2 1/2 miles from Ainsworth where he died in
1858. His male descendants then lived in Whitefield (approx 4 1/2 miles from
Ainsworth) until my father moved from Lancashire in 1957.

7. There is an entry in the IGI for a John Barlow of Unsworth (approx 5
miles away from Ainsworth) who had a child by Mary Eckersall (Eckersall
being one of the few variants of Eckersley, the tendency being for the name
to migrate from Eckersall to the far more frequent Eckersley). That child
is recorded as James Eckersall born 5th Jan 1815 falling within the short
timeframe permissible of a few months from his age stated on the land lease
mentioned in 4. above.

8. The ancestry for this John Barlow keys in to the two Barlows who claim
to originate from Barlow Hall, Chorlton mentioned in 2. above.

9. At least one of the other Barlow families claim descendancy from the
Fairfield Barlows.

10. I also had a test by Sorensen and have managed to extract my marker
values. My closest match on the Sorensen database is for 3 other Barlows
(one of whom is the ancestor of Israel Barlow (one of the Mormon founders in
Utah), a Francis Barlow b1512 Turton with later generations living in Little
Boulton, Bolton (3 miles from Ainsworth). A match of 36/39 on Sorensen's
markers with one step differences at DYS460, DYS456 and DYS463.


I know much of this is circumstantial evidence but I sort of feel this is a
bit like a murder case where the DNA and other evidence shows it has
happened but there isn't a body to prove it!

Thanks for all your help - and I will now have a look at the link you sent
me Phil - just so as I'm not influenced in this reply by anything I may see
on your website.
If you spot anything that sparks off an idea let me know and I will do the
same..

Regards,

John Eckersley
Eckersley Surname Project Co-Ordinator


----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Goff" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Assistance with Results Interpretation


> John,
>
> I did a double-take when I read your message because I have one
participant
> in the Goff Surname DNA Study that matches the Barlow family 25/25 and
> another 12/12. The 25/25 match is waiting for the third panel of the total
> 37 markers. See http://home.comcast.net/~philgoff/DNAresults.htm for
> details. I checked your kit # and find that your closest match is to the
R1b
> Barlows while my participant is an exact match for the I (most likely I1a)
> Barlows. Re your results, do you know of any possible connection with the
> Barlow family, such as families traditions or geographical proximity?
> Secondly, if there is no apparent geographical or other connection, it
seems
> to me that a 33/37 or 34/37 match in haplogroup R1b is a bit of a stretch.
>
> In the case of my two participants, they each descend from separate Goff
> families that lived in Tennessee. Descendants of these two families, plus
> another Goff family, all have family traditions that their ancestor was
born
> a Barlow (or a variant), orphaned and then adopted by a Goff family. The
> Barlow family that is an exact match for these participants also lived in
> TN. If the match holds up at 37 markers, I believe we will have confirmed
> this family tradition and confirmed that these three Goff ancestors were
> most likely brothers.
>
> Because John and I have similar situations, I'd like to append my Barlow
> connection to his email and also ask for comment. Thanks,
>
> Phil Goff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M True" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 4:19 AM
> Subject: [DNA] Assistance with Results Interpretation
>
>
> > Good morning fellow group members,
> >
> > My name is John Eckersley and I would be grateful to receive people's
> > comments on or interpretation of the following please:
> >
> > 1. Due to the similarity of my results with a group in the Barlow DNA
> > project I have asked for my results to be posted with their project. A
> > very recent match between myself and a new Barlow candidate has just
> > occurred at 33/37 using the Stepwise Model. However 2 of the steps
occur
> > at CDYa which FTDNA have as one of their faster mutating markers. Am I
> > correct in thinking when using the FTDNA hybrid model I should interpret
> > this difference as 1 not 2, in FTDNA terms making us 34/37 = related?
> >
> > my kit is # 22784, the close matching Barlow project member is kit #
30538
> > http://www.barlowgenealogy.com/Options/BARLOWDNAPROJECT.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > 2. We all appear to have a version of the AMH however the DYS393=12 is
a
> > common feature of the Barlow subgroup marked in Blue. I would be very
> > interested to hear what Bonnie, Anne, Ken, David etc have to say about
> > this feature and any other of the markers which they feel may have
> > significant values.
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Eckersley
> > Eckersley Surname Project Co-Ordinator
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the
> > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months.
> > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==============================
> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors
at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more:
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>

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