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From: "Brian D. Hamman" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] YCC haplogroup G1
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 11:51:37 -0500


Good post, Dennis. However, we also cannot assume that the GxG2 haplotypes
in the Behar paper are G* as neither G1 or G3 were tested. The GxG2
haplotypes are simply that, GxG2.

Below is the nomenclature that both Family Tree DNA (Hammer) and Underhill
use for haplogroup G:
1) G means that the sample tested positive for the M201 SNP, but none of the
other subclades of G were tested.
2) G* means that the sample tested positive for M201 SNP, but tested
negative for the SNPs defining G1, G2, and G3.
3) G1 means that the sample tested positive for M201 and P20. G1* means it
tested positive for M201 and P20, but negative for all the other subclades
of G1.
4) G2 means that the sample tested positive for M201 and P15. G2* means it
tested positive for M201 and P15, but negative for all the other subclades
of G2.
5) G3 means that the sample tested positive for M201 and M287. Since no
other subclades of G3 are known, there is no such as thing as G3*.
6) GxG2 means that the sample tested positive for M201, but negative for G2,
and that neither G1 or G3 were tested. I suppose that one could go along
with Behar and instead call this G*xG2, but I think he is wrong, because G
and G* are necessarily different as defined above?
7) I think everyone now knows what GxG1 and GxG3 would mean.

I welcome anyone on this list to correct me if I'm wrong. This sort of
nomenclature applies to all haplogroups so it's important that we come to a
consensus.

Cheers,
Brian



>> --- Dennis Garvey <> wrote:
>>> Brian Hamman and I exchanged a couple of emails on
>>> Friday concerning the
>>> stats given for haplogroup G1 on his haplogroup G
>>> webpage:
>>>
>>> http://www.brian-hamman.com/ModalsForG.htm
>>>
>>> Brian said he made the assumption that the GxG2 in
>>> Behar's paper were G1.
>>> That's what accounts for a large portion of the N=79
>>> shown in his table for
>>> G1. He said this seemed a reasonable assumption
>>> since the Behar GxG2
>>> haplotypes resembled those given for G1 in the 2004
>>> Anatolia paper by
>>> Cinnioglu et al and in the 2002 20 YSTR Megaplex
>>> paper by Butler et al.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure that we can assume that the GxG2's seen
>>> in 7.7% of Ashkenazi
>>> Jews in Behar's study are G1 (G-P20). For one thing,
>>> Hammer's group
>>> discovered P20 (the marker that defines G1), so it
>>> seems that they would
>>> have included it in the Behar study if it was seen
>>> among that significant of
>>> a fraction of Ashkenazi Jews.
>>>
>>> I am only aware of six examples of G1 in published
>>> studies: Cinnioglu et al
>>> saw four examples of G1a (G-P20) and one G1*
>>> (G-M285/342). Another example
>>> is YCC sample #79 (the 20 STR haplotype is given in
>>> the Butler paper). It
>>> may just be happenstance that YCC #79 was also from
>>> Turkey - or it may be
>>> that the range of haplogroup G1 is confined to that
>>> region.
>>>
>>> I think it's more likely that the GxG2 group seen by
>>> Behar et al among
>>> Ashkenazi Jews can only be defined as G* (G-M201*)
>>> with the presently known
>>> set of YSNPs. Keep in mind that this doesn't mean
>>> that the group has any
>>> fewer SNPs than anyone else - it just means that no
>>> member of that group has
>>> ever been included among those re-sequenced in a
>>> systematic search for new
>>> YSNPs.
>>>
>>> Dennis Garvey
>>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Y-Chromosome Haplogroup Website
>>>
>>>
>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dgarvey/DNA/markers.htm
>>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==============================
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>>
>

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