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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-05 > 1115669537


From: "Mark MacDonald" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] DNA shows Celtic hero Somerled's Viking roots
Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 15:20:48 -0500
In-Reply-To: <050920051623.11382.427F8E6B000D68E900002C762205886014050B989A0E00@comcast.net>


David

You are being too cautious. Doug can speak for himself however he is is a
MacDonald not a Perkins, a McCain, a MacNeill,a Jameson or a MacInnes. I
need not assume adoption, descent from Somerled's uncle or nonpaternity to
tie him to the MacDonalds. He is 25/25 with the Somerled signature and
closer to the 37 marker signature ,which we have not published, than the
overall mutations exhibited for two of our three participating chiefs. The
37 marker panel is intentionally faster mutating as you well know. Only two
of more than 20 Somerled signature participants are unmutated at 37 markers
after approximately 20-25 generations over approximately eight hundred
years. Your own finding concerning 19 21 at YCA is a useful sorting tool. My
problem with our Somerled signature MacDonalds is that they are so similar
to each other.

A true cynic could look at 37/37 over one generation and assert that the
paternal uncle might be the father. While that statement could be true, it
is not helpful for any kind of scientific analysis. Genetic truth means
probably true; family genealogies and history overall are only probably
true-- just in a different sense.



Mark MacDonald

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:23 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [DNA] DNA shows Celtic hero Somerled's Viking roots

Mark:

Does this mean that Doug has a clear genealogical trail back to this couple
circa 1100 AD? If you are using strictly Y-DNA data there are a lot of
people (e.g., surname Perkins and some of my Shetlanders) who have close to
the same signature. Somerled likely had brothers, cousins and even distant
family members with the same Y signature. You appear to be putting a lot of
reliance in these early genealogies which we are always told to view with a
lot of healthy skepticism. I suppose that this situation is not unlike the
assumptions being made about the descendants of Ghengis Khan - but
realistically can you state as absolute fact that any person today is
unequivocably a descendant of Somerled based on surname alone? Clan Donald
has a wide variety of signatures as I understand it. It makes some sense to
chose R1a as the "Somerled signature", but the Norse included R1b, I1a, Q
and K haplogroups. I guess Mark I am asking what evidence you are using to
make your assertion!
s. Granted that the R1a McDonalds are in all probabiity descendants of
Norse Vikings, I am just wondering if you may be overextending things by
chosing one signature without a straight line unbroken genealogical trail
leading back to Somerled. Perhaps I am being overcautious.

David F.

David F.



-------------- Original message --------------

> Yes, in my earlier email response I failed to mention that she was also
> descended from Malcolm I, King of Scotland, as well as Thorstein the
Red,son
> of Olaf the White of Dublin and Aud the Deep Minded who was one of the
> founders of Iceland when Thorstein died and Olaf returned to Norway as its

> king. She was also descended from Eystein of More, the father of Rollo who

> founded the Norman dynasty.
>
> Each of these lines require the assumption that the ancient lineages were
> accurately recorded which some historians dispute.
>
>
> Doug is a descendant of the Somerled Ragnhilda marriage in his pure
paternal
> line.
> Mark MacDonald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug McDonald [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 2:44 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] DNA shows Celtic hero Somerled's Viking roots
>
> Raymond Whritenour wrote:
> > And see how carelessly this result is interpreted! Somerled may have
> > been 90% "Celtic," but because of his male-line signature, he's somehow
> > considered "Viking."
>
> Somerled himself has unknown ancestry.
>
> But his wife, and mother of his children with paper trails,
> Ragnhilda, was mostly Scandinavian, with some Irish, Scottish,
> Danish, Ukranian and Polish ancestry.
>
> Doug McDonald


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