Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-05 > 1115773932

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] How to Sort Data
Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:12:12 -0600
References: <>

Glen, I also tried to make a haplogroup I out of it, but was never
comfortable with the scenarios I came up with.

R1b's modal values are known for all 45 or so markers available from FTDNA +
Relative Genetics + DNA Heritage, etc. So with 37 markers you could very
well see some breaking of the ranks if this guy is not a strange R1b.

But also consider this. There are thousands and thousands of haplotypes out
there which have been measured and reported to their owners. Everybody with
modal or near modal or modestly far from modal haplotypes look at them, try
to match them with cousins, seek to learn the haplogroup and usually get
reasonable assignments. We don't hear much from such folks. But there have
to be a few haplotypes out there on the far fringes of unliklihood. That's
how the statistical process works, and if the unlikely did not show up now
and then that would be funny and demand explanation.

We hear about the McDonald's burger flipper who got dealt a royal flush in
Vegas last weekend. But the many thousands of more or less ordinary poker
hands dealt out to others that weekend went unmentioned.

Enough of the 392 = 11 R1b haplotypes (which could mean most all that are
measured) need to be collected to see if any pattern is present among them.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Todd" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] How to Sort Data

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:25 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] How to Sort Data
> >
> > Glen, The 11 you have at DYS392 is extremely unusual for R1b. I can't
> > say much more than that. It is probably so rare one can't yet learn
> > much about it because the examples are so few.
> Thanks for that much, Ken. I'm still very much in learning mode, as I
> said. I've ordered the 37-marker FTDNA test as a cross-check (and out of
> curiosity), and also their mtDNA test for the other side.
> That's extremely curious. Looking at Terry Todd's Todd Family DNA chart
> (, I see that a DYS392
> value of 11 occurs in almost all of the haplogroup I Todds.
> I'm not exactly sure how all of this works, but is it possible that there
> could also be some connection or overlap with I1? There are also a 12
> 389-1 and a 28 at 389-2, as well as a 15 at 19/394.
> Glen
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