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From: (David Faux)
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b and DYS437
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:36:47 +0000


Hello Bill:

What I am facing is the problem of differentiating private family mutations (say a 15 to a 14 on DYS437) from a long - standing ethnic marker where say 14 has been modal in a particular population for perhaps 2000 or more years. The task will only stand if a host population in say England is found and a source population in say Spain is located and there is historical or archaeological evidence of a movement of people from one location to the other.

For example my handy Penguin Atlas of Ancient History shows a cultural continuity between Northern Iberia and all of Britain as of 375 BC. After this date migrations of Parisi and other Gaulish peoples progressively occupied England in the South and East and by 220 BC only Ireland and Scotland had escaped the Continental incursions. By 74 BC all of Britain was occupied by Belgae and other Celtic peoples thus severing the cultural continuity with Iberia but likely leaving pockets of Iberian Y and mtDNA scattered about.

In my case, of the first 25 markers all but 5 are modal for Iberia; and 4 of these off - modal values are "significantly" more common in Iberia than elsewhere (i.e., all at least twice as frequent in Iberia).

Who knows, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, but the data is consistent with my hypothesis of a local origin. I would recommend that anyone who is wondering about the possibility of a similar origin go to Robert Tarin's pdf document via www.worldfamiies.net under "Y Haplogroups".

David F.


-------------- Original message --------------

> David F. and all,
>
> All 15 of our Group A "Shenandoah" Hursts are 437=14 (all also 390=23 and
> 391=10), with the origin almost certainly England. All are predicted R1b;
> I'm SNP-tested.
>
> All four of our Group E, also from Virginia, are also 437=14 (two are
> 390=23, two are 390=24; all are 391=11). They are predicted R1b, closer to
> the WAMH according to Whit's calculator than Group A.
>
> We only have three other American Hursts, all 437=15. (23/10, 24/10, and
> 24/11), all predicted R1b.
>
> I find it interesting that our two Virginia groups, who had parallel origins
> and migration patterns, share the 437=14 which is only 11% in non-Iberian
> R1bs. Of course, our Group A 393=14 is the primary distinguishing marker.
>
> Bill Hurst



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