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From: "gareth.henson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b and DYS437
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:09:28 +0100
References: <20050604145401.98166.qmail@web61318.mail.yahoo.com>


David & List

Robert Tarin's stats are fascinating and make interesting comparisons with
similar tabulations e.g. by Whit Athey and Dennis Garvey. But as each marker
is given in isolation you lose any information regarding correlations
between different markers.

For example, 2 of my non-modal markers are 389i = 12 and 464a = 14. Robert's
charts suggest both these values are more common in Iberian samples. However
on ysearch there are barely more than 16 or so R1bs with *both* these
values, none of the ones I have found are of Iberian origin (mostly Scottish
and Irish, or unknown origin but with English/Scottish surnames).
So either few of Robert Tarin's Iberians are on ysearch (but two of his
sources are FTDNA projects so you would expect many would be) or more likely
the ones with 389i = 12 are not the same as the ones with DYS464a = 14. In
which case for at least one of the two markers it might only be coincidence
that I match Iberians more than non-Iberians.
On the other hand the non-Iberians I found were overwhelmingly DYS464c = 16,
so agreeing with the Iberian modal value rather than non-Iberian 17. I
wonder whether they would still all match with the extended DYS464 test for
R1bs?
By the way they all have DYS437 = 15.

As with Ken Nordtvedt's "Greater Frisian" grouping the stats suggest there
is something there, we just don't seem to have enough of the right sort of
data yet to nail it down. We need more samples (with known geographic
origins), more STRs and more subgroup SNPs.

Gareth






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