Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1118277830

From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Kittler test on E3b - And a Bit more about E
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <>

Andrew & List:

It appears from Cruciani's data that almost all
European E-M78 results are of the "Balkan" haplotype
and, in fact, the vast majority of Europe E3b results
are within this sub-clade. Unfortunately, Cruciani
doesn't really define the "fourth cluster" of E-M78,
which is the other haplotype that occurs in Europe,
albeit a much lower frequency than the "Balkan" type.
Interestingly, it occurs in Europe at its highest
frequency (6.3%) among the French Basque, with
Sicilians a close second.

I found the very low frequency of E-M35* rather
intriguing among Estonians. Otherwise, it is in
agreement with Semino's haplogroup E findings. This
sub-clade appears to have trickled over from North
Africans into Portuguese, Italian, Spanish & Jewish
groups. E-M81 also appears to have trickled over at a
very low frequency from North Africa.

The puzzle for me is E-M123. Semino reports this
sub-clade in low frequency in the Middle East and
Europe, but in Cruciani's data, it is basically
non-existent except for .9% in Romania.

Ellen Coffman

--- Andrew and Inge <> wrote:

> Dear Ellen
> You wrote:
> All E3b's have the M35/M215 mutation. E3a is defined
> by the M2/P1/M180
> mutation, according to Cruciani.
> When you say you believe you are M78 of the "Balkan"
> type, you mean with a
> 24/23 value at marker DYS413?
> Short answer is "yes". Also A7.1 is 9. Cruciani
> actually seems to say that
> the A7.1 marker is the determining one more than
> DYS413.
> Actually this picks up nicely where we left it last
> month...
> As I wrote there, my only authority is Cruciani and
> Dennis Garvey's
> websites.
> that you mentioned it, I did however google
> those marker names in
> Cruciani which no one explained to me, and noticed
> happily that A7.1 is
> DYS460. Therefore I can confirm that I, and most
> people who match Garvey's
> proposal for alpha, are DYS460=9. Some are
> DYS460=10.
> I also note that DYS413 is not tested commercially,
> and is not (as still on
> some websites such as Kerchner and Duerinck) the
> same as YCAII. It seems to
> be called YCAIII. In any case no one on public
> databases seems to have
> tested it. For YCAII most people in the
> Garvey-defined alpha group are
> 19,21. (All on ysearch are 19 and then 19, 20, 21,
> or 22, but 19,21 is the
> clear mode).
> Best Regards
> Andrew
> ==============================
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