Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1118773629

From: Bonnie Schrack <>
Subject: River valleys, migrations, and J2 haplotype maps (was balkans andE3b1 (M78))
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:27:09 -0400

Thank you Andrew!

> Concerning the river dispersion, note that E3b types are perhaps (we are
> indeed just scratching the surface) still rather diverse up the Danube and
> into southern Germany. See my recent Stuttgart comments.

If only YHRD showed rivers!! Wouldn't that be a worthwhile project,
plotting haplotype varieties onto a map showing the major river valleys
of Europe.

I hadn't picked up, 'til you said this, on the significance of your
Stuttgart comment in terms of migrations.

I just took a look at the map at YHRD for the modal J2e haplotype,
15-12-28-24-10-11-12, with 107 total matches, and outside of the
expected hot spots in the Balkans and Italy, it's reminiscent of the map
I have of the extent of the LBK (Linear Pottery) culture, who first
brought the Neolithic way of life to Western Europe.

There's strong representation in Central Europe, through Budapest into
Austria and Switzerland and throughout (well-sampled) Germany, notably
in both the East from Dresden to Berlin and north, and in the West right
up the Rhine valley and beyond. Freiburg has the most impressive
contingent, with 6 samples/433, closely followed percentagewise by
Cologne and Dusseldorf.

At Ysearch, there are currently 30 haplotypes, from 25 surnames, that
*exactly* match this one, plus lots of near-matches. Of course it is
still unknown what proportion of those who have this STR haplotype are
actually J2e.

There is an endless amount to do... at YHRD there are four one-step
variations on this haplotype, each of which has more than 20 samples in
the database. That will have to wait!

The difference in the map for the J2 modal haplotype,
14-13-29-23-10-11-12, with 164 matches, is that it has more presence in
southern Italy and especially in Portugal and Spain. Among the 22 of
these haplotypes that include 438, 13 are 9 (J2) and 9 are 10 (J1?).
So some of the difference in distribution might well be accounted for by
J1, which is known to be present in just those areas.

Bonnie Schrack

This thread: