Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1118855061

From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Campbell DNA Project Speaks Up
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:04:21 -0300
References: <><><>
In-Reply-To: <>

At 12:15 AM 15/06/2005, you wrote:
>What is it about a Dalriadic descent that makes it non-British?
>As an American, my understanding is that the British are the
>non-Anglo-Saxon, non-Norse, and non-Norman (and their auxilliaries)
>elements in the population of the British Isles. If the Scots came from
>Ireland to Dalriada, and they spoke some form of Celtic language, and the
>Campbells descend from them, why are they not British?

The Scots came from the region in Ireland once called Dalriada. The areas
they took over (ie. controlled) on the Scottish side (part of the Inner
and Argyll) then also became known as part of Daldriada. They were considered
a distinct foreign group who spoke a Q Celtic language versus the P Celtic
language. Just because some recent linguist classified a number of related
languages in Europe "Celtic" does not mean that were both Celtic people. The
native Britons considered themselves Britons and the invaders Scots. Celtic
is a modern label and does not mean that the people called Celtic are from the
same original culture in the British Isles. The Scots were not Britons
they spoke a different language and both the Scots and Britons considered
themselves different. All of us are claimed to have a common origin but what
this is has not been clearly determined.

You are American and I am Canadian. Most old Americans and
Canadians are actually a mix of the same people a few hundred years
back. However, you call yourself American and lately many of you
hate us Canadians for our opinions on some recent actions taken
by your government ;-). If Americans rolled across the border in
tanks, etc. we would consider you invaders (vice versa if the the other
way around). In terms of language we both speak English from the
Angles but I do not consider myself English. You have your own
beliefs on your origins. Our paternal DNA side is another matter
just as it was back then.

Both Britons and Scots appear to have been mostly R1b. Hpefully there
was enough time separating the two people that there are at least SNPs
that help isolate the two and hopefully even STR mutation more common to
one versus the other. You plug in some Welsh surnames and compare them
to some Dalriadic surnames and there are lots of mutations separating
them. Thus, one would think that a pattern in the STRs can be determined.
John's work is one attempt at this.

Best wishes!


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