Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119022767

From: "Glen Todd" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] sub rugrat level
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:39:27 -0600
In-Reply-To: <001901c57332$971b1260$5a579045@Ken1>

> While we wait for some SNP tests to be done on the new clade
> (probably of
> I), I'm interested in why you believe it has a Norman character?

More or less because I've been looking at the people involved in the various
'hits'. We have Tavernier - in Norman France. We have me - and at least
one historical account has our family name line coming to Yorkshire from
Normandy. We have Clason/Clawson, from a part of Connecticut that
historical records show was populated largely from the Yorkshire area, and
another spelling of the name - Clauson - is known to be French. (I have
an acquaintance named Clauson, who is of French ancestry.) We have two
Irish hits, one of which has family history saying that they came from
Norman France via England ca. 1200CE, and the other is 25/25 with the first
one (and which has a French sounding name and earliest known ancestor is in
French Park, Ireland). We have a Danish hit, and the Normans were in
large part originally Danes. There are other hits in the British Isles,
any of which COULD be Norman, and quite a number where the earliest known
ancestor is in the United States, but history of the region suggest could
well be British Isles ancestry. There are also some anomalies (Germany,
Holland, and Brazil), but they could be explained either by recent migration
(I don't know how far known lines go back on them - I would suspect with
Brazil in particular that it's not very far, and Brazil is known to have
Germanic ties) or by the 'root' of the subclade being in one of the old
Teutonic tribes.

Should the SNPs prove out to be 'I', that is consistent as well, since the
Normans were basically originally Vikings. (Rollo the Walker, first duke
of Normandy, was born in Norway, and of course the word 'Norman' itself is a
corruption of 'Northmen'.) My family name ('Todd') is an Old English/Old
Norse (many words are the same between the two closely related languages)
meaning 'fox'. It's far from inconceivable that, while the Normans had
essentially converted to speaking French by the time of the Conquest, traces
of the older language might have survived, particularly in names. (And to
this day, parts of Yorkshire 'dialect' are recognizably Old Norse, as are
many dialect words in parts of the Highlands. Some of this is undoubtedly
from the Danelaw, but some of it might be from the Normans.

IMO it's a long way from being enough evidence to label this a 'Norman
subclade' at this point, but it's enough to provide food for speculation.


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