Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119030166

From: "" <>
Subject: I am M269+ (R1b1c)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:42:46 -0400

I was just informed of SNP results that show I am M269+ and therefore a
member of haplogroup R1b1c. There is absolutely no surprise in this, and I
report it just to tie up loose ends.

To summarize for those who are sort of interested but don't routinely
follow nested SNP distinctions, M269 is one step down the ladder from P25,
which identifies R1b1 in the 2005 YCC haplogroup tree and which Family Tree
DNA tests to establish membership in Haplogroup R1b. Cinnioglu found a
couple of Asian haplotypes that were P25+ but M269-, so that is what
justifies the distinction. In Europe, it seems to be the case that all P25+
are also M269+.

Most of us still use the phrase "R1b" as shorthand for R1b1 and R1b1c even
though it is not technically appropriate to do so. In Europe, the SNP for
R1b (M343, which is the basis for the Genographic haplogroup distinction)
appears to be found universally in company with P25 and M269. As David Faux
regularly points out, we ought to use the most recent SNP as the reference
point for membership in this subclade. But as a practical matter, if you
are M343+ in Europe, you are also P25+ and M269+. To my mind there's not
much lost in using the shortest possible haplogroup term to define this
large group.

As I posted a few days ago, I am negative for the SNPs that define the
first six subclades of R1b1c. Three other subclades were not tested.

My haplotype reflects the 25/11/14 "Irish" variety of R1b.

David Wilson
Wilson Surname Project Co-Administrator
ZCCH9 at Ysearch

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