Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119380626

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Order of 385 Lengths in Haplogroup I
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:46 -0600

Interesting things keep trickling in with reports from those who have had their DYS385a,b order measured at biotix. An X,Y result at DYS385a,b can now be measured to distinquish whether it is X,Y or Y,X with the two different lengths assigned to the two specific places in the ychromosome.

Most I1a have been found to be "high/low"; that is to be expected since the modal 13/14 of (root?) Anglo-Saxon I1a is "high/low"

But the first Ultra Norse haplotype with 14/15 at 385a,b reported "low/high", having most likely historically passed through Norse 14,14 at 385a,b and hence lost its order. Then its next mutation to 14/15 was "low/high"

Now a DYS19,390 = 15/22 I1a with 14/15 at 385a,b reports in as "high/low". The 15/22 I1a with either 13,14 or 13,15 at 385a,b have been found to be "high/low". But this haplotype is part of a large extended project family group with mostly 14,14 at 385a,b. So again, the history of this line is that it was 14,14 and had lost its order. Now one in this group which had a recent mutation to 14,15 from 14,14 has been measured to be "high/low".

We can tentatively conclude from these two examples that when 385a,b is 14,14 there are non-negligible probabilities that either site can mutate --- to either 14/15 or 15/14; and neither of the sites is comparitively speaking locked into place. One could probably have inferred this from the existence of the two populations of 14/22/13/15 and 13/22/14/14 which are both fairly robust and most likely had mutated away from the larger population of AngloSaxon 14/22/13/14, but is is nice to see confirmation in individual haplotype cases.

If you have haplotypes in any of the "I" sublcade haplogroups --- I1a, I1b, or I1c --- please consider having the order at 385a,b measured (unless you are X,X at 385a,b) We keep learning more with almost every report which comes in.

I am still waiting to see the first "low/high" example of 385a,b for the AngloSaxon 14/22/13/14 haplotype. This requires only two steps of mutation from the "high/low" and should exist with some non-negligible amount in such a big population.


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