Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119530598

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup F*
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:43:18 -0600
References: <021801c5778f$c5eeaff0$6401a8c0@whit> <000501c57793$75506cb0$5a579045@Ken1> <00b601c577e7$71c2f500$7302a8c0@YOURF8387228BF>

It will be interesting to see how this is resolved. The 9FF4V except for
DYS439=13 is right on the money for what has been found to be a very large
group in NW Europe and generally put in the group I1c a.k.a. I2

Rootsi et al paper which was the first to really broadly search for I1c
haplotypes used M170+ (or is it M258+) plus M223+ as the defining SNPs.
Haplogroup I is shown to be definable by three "redundant" SNPs --- P19,
M170, and M258 Does danger lurk when researchers use different ones of the
"redundant" SNPs?

So is it possible we have a case where allegedly redundant SNPs are really
differentiated by some haplotypes? This should send David Faux into a state
of nirvana, if so.

Let me quote the controling language in the Rootsi et al paper. "Of the
1104 Y chromosomes from the present study ... that showed the derived M170
C-allele, 236 (representative of the entire collection) were first examined
for all the Hg I mutations known to date --- namely, M21, M26, P37, M72,
M223, M227, M253, M284, and M307... The M258 and M307 were observed in all
of the hgI and I1a Y chromosomes, respectively, whereas the M21, M72, and
M284 mutations were not found. Thus, all of these were subsequently omitted
in the remainder of the survey."

If not already done, I will try to track the owner of 9FF4V down and get the
most definitive possible answer about what SNPs have been performed on it?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Goff" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup F*

> Ken,
> I discovered this Bell example (9FF4V) on June 11. I have a theory that
> there are many haplogroup F* results, which have not been SNP-tested, that
> are mislabeled as being part of other haplogroups. I corresponded with the
> *Beal* Group Administrator and learned the following: "Bell 326 has been
> Y-HAP tested and for me is a very unusual SNP haplogroup! It came back
> I forwarded this result to Whit as soon as I learned of it, knowing his
> interested. I'm relying on what I heard from the Group Administrator that
> this is a SNP-tested result. Thanks,
> Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup F*
> > 9FF4V looks like an I1c a.k.a. I2 haplotype. Are you sure it is F*?
> ==============================
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