Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119569770

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup F*
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:36:10 -0600
References: <021801c5778f$c5eeaff0$6401a8c0@whit> <000501c57793$75506cb0$5a579045@Ken1> <00b601c577e7$71c2f500$7302a8c0@YOURF8387228BF> <00d601c57848$b8eaef30$7302a8c0@YOURF8387228BF>

FTDNA does not test M170 and M258, only P19. Rootsi used the former two and
not the third for establishing yhaplogroup "I". So I guess each could miss
back mutations in their excluded SNPs. Bell 326 seems like a good candidate
for David Faux to test M170 and M258 as well as M223. Probability seems
negligible that three SNPs would have back mutations. David, are you back
home and in business?

Last summer I was tested for M253, M307, and P30 --- all defining SNPs for
I1a. I tested positive for M253 and P30, but negative for M307. But there
are real problems with such a result since some papers have indicated they
found no M253+, M307- haplotypes out of a broad sampling of I1a haplotypes.
Fortunately I also tested P40+ putting me further downstream in I1a1.

I and others have asked through the months what the error rate is in
reported SNP test results from the companies? The question is still of

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Goff" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup F*

> List,
> With the permission of the Beal Group Administrator, I contacted Bennett
> Greenspan to inquire about the Bell 326 SNP test. Here's an excerpt of
> Bennett's response: "The sample was tested for G-K and was negative so it
> was called an F*."
> The collection of SNP-tested F* results that I have observed are all over
> the board and resemble various forms of G, H, I, J or K. Is it possible
> F* is really a collection of G, H, I, J and K, which have independently
> back mutations? Haplogroup I has three defining mutations, but as
> on the List today, did all three really arise in one birth? Might there be
> people out there with only one of M170, P19, or M258? If so, the
> of a back mutation would seem to be greater than if three mutations had to
> back mutate.
> (Ken will recognize the above as a more tame variation of a theory I
> privately a few days ago). Thanks,
> Phil
> ==============================
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