GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119650381
From: "Glen Todd" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Haplogroup F*
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:59:41 -0600
> Dale, I'm the last one to minimize or put down diversity, but
> the Domesday Book is not considered a source of any kind of
> unbiased accuracy in revealing ancient British history.
You're correct in that much. The Domesday Book is a census, and as such
the only thing that I really consider it a reliable source for is that a
particular name WAS in a particular place AT a particular time (notably the
1066-1086 window that the book covered).
> There were naturally many diverse ethnic elements, but the
> old model Glen put forward, which always portrayed triumphant
> Anglo-Saxon, Viking and Norman invaders driving back a weak
> remnant of primitive Celtic tribes, has been tossed out and
> is enjoying a well-deserved retirement.
This IMO begs the entire original question; What happened to the Little
I know that this theory doesn't have much credibility with 'serious'
scientific types that don't ever read folklore (or anything else that isn't
published in a 'reputable' peer-reviewed scientific journal - my father was
like that), but there are a number of people who consider that the 'Little
People', the Tommyknockers, dwarves, kobolds, and such who populate the
folklore of the British Isles and of north-western Europe are the mythic
remnants of a possibly Pictish or pre-Pictish people that no longer survive
as an identifiable population group.
> Naturally some percentage of those who came from the
> continent were R1b, but that can hardly explain the hefty
> majority of R1b found in the English population, which is
> considered to indicate native ancestry.
Again, this begs the question of exactly what means 'native'? If we
accept as stated the currently dominant 'Out of Africa' theory, together
with the complete replacement of homo neanderthalis by homo sapiens, then in
that time frame none of us are 'native' anywhere but Africa.
The notion of haplogroup R1b somehow signifying 'native British' seems
fairly chauvinistic to me, given that R1b is generally described as 'the
most prolific haplogroup in Europe' and to cover a range from Spain and
France to the fringes of the Middle East.