GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119892340
From: (David Faux)
Subject: Re: [DNA] P25
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:12:20 +0000
I would be ok with a "High probability R1b1c" designation, but you can't call yourself something for which there is no ultimate proof, only very strong circumstantial evidence. SNPs define haplogroups.
Chances are that most of the males on this list are 46XY. This is a probabilistic statement since 1/1000 males are born 47XYY but the phenotypic traits are too subtle to diagnose without a karyotype (typically done via categorizing and counting chromosomes under a microscope). I have been karyotyped and can say with 100% certainty that I am 46XY - I suspect that everyone else within listening distance is using a probabilistic statement in relation to their non - autosomal chromsomes.
-------------- Original message --------------
> David, I appreciate the addition of your company to measure SNPs that other
> labs have so far refused to market. Your services can speed up our
> understanding of the peopling of Europe and other regions, and how our
> particular haplotypes fit into that larger picture. But you consistently
> cast things too strongly in black and white extremes. Most folks with
> canonical haplotypes are not "simply guessing" about haplogroups if they
> have not had the full battery of SNP tests. Their haplogroup affiliation is
> clear with high probability. There are all gradations of evidence for these
> estimates, from the very reliable to the doubtful. And certainly the more
> difficult haplogroups to identify and the marginal haplotypes (especially if
> they are whimpy short haplotypes) need either key SNPs or more key markers
> to confidently identify.
> And please, no appeals to the "proper authority". Ysearch is overwhelmed
> with false haplogroup insertions based on the authorities. And no good
> estimate of the error rate in reported SNP results has yet come forth.
> Being an owner, myself, of a very questionable SNP designation as well as
> observing the many other foibles of the "authorities" is a sobering reality