Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119922713

From: Bonnie Schrack <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] P49 distinctions in R1b -- watch 393 and 461
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:38:33 -0400

David Wilson wrote:

> Is there some kind of shorthand we can agree to use for "P49a,f/TaqI
> system" so that I don't have to keep looking up how it is spelled and
> worrying that I can't italicize the part that gets special treatment
> in the
> journals? Maybe everyone will cut me some slack and know what I mean if I
> just call it the P49 system.

Sure, if you like, but I've been calling it 49a,f -- to me, calling it
P49 sounds too much like a regular SNP, while this is a whole series of
loci, as you know.

> At any rate, with reference to the P49 distinction within R1b, I want to
> observe that if you compare the Ht35 and Ht15 haplotypes in Cinnioglu
> (which I think is the only place where comparative data like this can be
> easily found), there is a tendency for DYS393 to be 12 in Ht35, but it is
> pretty strongly 13 in Ht15. Similarly, DYS461 (or A7.2 as Cinnioglu terms
> it) is very frequently 9 in Ht35 (though you occasionally see 10),
> while it
> is pretty consistently 10 in Ht15.

Thank you, thank you, David, for pointing this out! Somehow, I hadn't
noticed the DYS461 distinction in R1b! This is exciting.

OK, all you hordes of R1b guys -- while you're waiting for David Faux's
company to develop the 49a,f test, you can sign up to have DYS461 tested
at biotix, and find out whether you're more likely ht15 or ht35! I
know there's a whole group of R1b Border Reivers out there who have 12
at DYS393. For a while, a theory was going around that they might
have had the eastern, ht9 form of R1b. Here's a chance to test that
theory! In Cinnioglu, while there are a few ht35 (eastern) who have 10
(11 at biotix, 12 at DNAH), most of them have 9 at 461 (10 at biotix, 11
at DNAH); those that tested as ht15 (western) are *all* 10 at 461.

Other haplogroups that commonly have the same 9 at 461 (10 biotix, 11
DNAH) are J1, K2, and R1a, so it could be used to help clarify
haplotypes that might be one of those.

> As a complete aside, "C" in Turkish is pronounced like English "J", so the
> author's name is pronounced something like "JEN-gis jin-ee-OH-loo."

I always appreciate knowing these things!

Bonnie Schrack

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