GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119928910
From: "robert mclaren" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] P49 distinctions in R1b -- watch 393 and 461
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:21:50 -0400
I signed up for the STRs at biotix that are not on FTDNA's three panels.
And DYS#461 is one of them. And I'm an R1b (recently told that I'm M269+).
> [Original Message]
> From: Bonnie Schrack <>
> To: <>
> Date: 6/27/2005 9:39:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] P49 distinctions in R1b -- watch 393 and 461
> David Wilson wrote:
> > Is there some kind of shorthand we can agree to use for "P49a,f/TaqI
> > system" so that I don't have to keep looking up how it is spelled and
> > worrying that I can't italicize the part that gets special treatment
> > in the
> > journals? Maybe everyone will cut me some slack and know what I mean if
> > just call it the P49 system.
> Sure, if you like, but I've been calling it 49a,f -- to me, calling it
> P49 sounds too much like a regular SNP, while this is a whole series of
> loci, as you know.
> > At any rate, with reference to the P49 distinction within R1b, I want to
> > observe that if you compare the Ht35 and Ht15 haplotypes in Cinnioglu
> > (which I think is the only place where comparative data like this can be
> > easily found), there is a tendency for DYS393 to be 12 in Ht35, but it
> > pretty strongly 13 in Ht15. Similarly, DYS461 (or A7.2 as Cinnioglu
> > it) is very frequently 9 in Ht35 (though you occasionally see 10),
> > while it
> > is pretty consistently 10 in Ht15.
> Thank you, thank you, David, for pointing this out! Somehow, I hadn't
> noticed the DYS461 distinction in R1b! This is exciting.
> OK, all you hordes of R1b guys -- while you're waiting for David Faux's
> company to develop the 49a,f test, you can sign up to have DYS461 tested
> at biotix, and find out whether you're more likely ht15 or ht35! I
> know there's a whole group of R1b Border Reivers out there who have 12
> at DYS393. For a while, a theory was going around that they might
> have had the eastern, ht9 form of R1b. Here's a chance to test that
> theory! In Cinnioglu, while there are a few ht35 (eastern) who have 10
> (11 at biotix, 12 at DNAH), most of them have 9 at 461 (10 at biotix, 11
> at DNAH); those that tested as ht15 (western) are *all* 10 at 461.
> Other haplogroups that commonly have the same 9 at 461 (10 biotix, 11
> DNAH) are J1, K2, and R1a, so it could be used to help clarify
> haplotypes that might be one of those.
> > As a complete aside, "C" in Turkish is pronounced like English "J", so
> > author's name is pronounced something like "JEN-gis jin-ee-OH-loo."
> I always appreciate knowing these things!
> Bonnie Schrack
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|Re: [DNA] P49 distinctions in R1b -- watch 393 and 461 by "robert mclaren" <>|