Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1119997010

From: proofer joan <>
Subject: Roman Britain DNA (and R1b contact from Iberia)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <>

Dear Lloyd,

I confess that I did not see your posting -- only a
message that Jim forwarded to the list (which I did
not read until you pointed it out).

IMHO, modern haplotype studies show that there is a
strong substrate of R1b along the Atlantic facade from
Iberia to Armorica to the Atlantic and Irish Sea
littoral of the British Isles.

Accepted theory is that this represents the
"background radiation" of an R1b "big bang" after the
last LGM.

I would like to propose that R1b also spread northward
from Iberia by maritime trade and migration starting
in the 4th millennium BC.

For instance, I find it of interest that R1b is strong
today in European zones where metal production was
located during the Bronze Age and later periods.

This would not rule out Roman mercenaries, recruited
in Iberia, from also contributing to the spread of
R1b, though it seems that the relatively-even British
R1b distribution points to an older source.

I was wondering if more exotic haplogroups in Britain,
such as J or E3b, could be the result of the Roman
occupation. These haplogroups appear to be more
localized in Britain, which could be explained by
local deployment of mercenary troops of high J/E3b

Since my earlier posting, I have found more on this
subject in earlier list postings and off-site.

The Roman Era does not impinge directly on my reseach,
but is, nonetheless, of broadbrush interest.

I have taken the liberty of copying the list since I
believe others may have constructive observations.

Sincerely, Joan

--- wrote:

> Hi Joan.
> You wrote <Has anyone studied the y-hapolgroup and
> haplotype contributions of Roman soldiers and
> colonists in Britain?>
> I have been researching this since 2001 using my
> genealogy, history and tie-ins to DNA.
> A few days ago (June 22) I made a post hoping to
> catch some fish, with little success.
> See the following:
> Subject: Roman Galicia DNA matches.
> By utilizing Ysearch and YHRD databases, I have IMO
> discovered (proven ?), together
> with historical evidence, Roman Galicia (N.W.
> Iberia) to be an ancestral origin of many of those
> whose surnames appear in Ysearch by using
> my ID 2dsvm with 25 markers and > 3 mismatches.
> Since there is considerable historical evidence
> involved, a long e-mail would not be acceptable.
> Those who have an interest in "deep ancestry" may
> contact me off-line.
> Lloyd Ellis
> To those few who responded, I sent the following but
> had no feedback:>
> <I presume that you did the Ysearch and saw the
> surnames ?
> As a starter, I have a paper trail back into the
> 1300's (north Wales) and pedigree info.
> back in the mists (myths?) of time to the "men of
> the North" and Cunedda Wledig b.
> abt. 380 AD and beyond. My YHRD info. shows only 2
> hits, one in north Portugal (read Roman Galicia)
> and one in Switzerland.
> Allele variations in YHRD have a strong showing
> in N.W. Iberia, Strasbourg, Stuttgart, etc.
> With 1-3 mismatches a TMRCA (I use 30
> years/generation) is probably early first century
> in Roman Galicia, probably centered on the Roman
> complex at what is now Braga in N. Portugal. In the
> 1st centuries BC and AD there were 3 Roman legions
> in this area, the II August, XX and the VI Vicitrix
> of some 5000 men each and accompaning Cohorts of
> some 500 men each such as the III Bracaraugustium
> from Braga.
> All three legions were sent to Germany along the
> Rhine early in the 1st. century and were
> later deployed to Britain beginning in 43 AD and up
> to the early 5th century in southern
> Scotland (read men of the North) all participating
> in the building of Hadrians Wall.
> Back to Ysearch. Note the 3 german surnames. They
> are the key to my interpretation.
> These people indicate that their ancestors came from
> Germany to the USA and not from
> the "Isles". Hmmm ! Well some of the Celtic
> soldiers within the Legions came to Britain, such as
> mine. The ancestors of the 3 germans obviously
> stayed in Germany !
> If you are interested in when and where these
> Legions served, a google search will
> lead you to many authentic sources.>
> E-mail to the 3 Germans:
> What I have found is that it is most likely that
> our ancestors were part of the Roman Legions or
> auxiliary Cohorts stationed in Roman
> Galicia early in the 1st century, transferred to
> Germany along the Rhine and later sent
> to Britain during the first and second centuries.
> BUT, your ancestors stayed in Germany !
> My ancestors went to Britain !
> The key to discovering this was your german surnames
> and my assumption that your ancestors never came
> from the British Isles to the USA
> I actually have additional DNA data pointing to
> southern Scotland (around Hadrians wall)
> and IMO a tie in to the pedigree of my line.
> Regards,
> Lloyd Ellis

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