Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-06 > 1120001367

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Wanted: P19+ but P37- FTDNA Test Results
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:29:27 -0600
References: <003f01c57c1f$4cafb0a0$5a579045@Ken1>

I will repeat this request for some particular haplotypes again along with
an explanation of what I am doing and why these haplotypes are important

I found today a haplotype stated to be SNP tested by FTDNA to be P19+ and
P37-. That means "in haplogroup I but not in haplogroup I1b"
With extended, many marker Sorenson or FTDNA haplotypes I can certainly with
high efficiency detect a I1a or I1c haplotype. Putting these two operations
together, I am left with a haplotype which is I* or I1*. I want to study
the whole collection of existing I* or I1* haplotypes in the major
databases. Such haplotypes will represent either the very early haplotypes
of haplogroup I which should be close to the founder haplotype, or they
represent new subclades other than the known ones I1a, I1b, and I1c a.k.a.

I need a population of I* or I1* haplotypes to develop the modal form for
all 43 markers in common use today. The published academic collection of I*
haplotypes is about a dozen or two but with only a handful of STR markers

From the 43 marker I* or I1* haplotype I have found today a good beginning
has been made in determining its modal structure. I found 15 haplotypes in
Sorenson and a comparable number in Ysearch which are good candidates for I*
or I1* because they match the proven one at a core set of key markers, and
then I can find the distribution of repeats for this haplotype population at
all the additional markers available in the Sorenson or Ysearch databases.

But to keep the limb I climb out onto as short as possible in this process,
it is helpful to have additional proven SNP tested haplotypes of the P19+
and P37- type. This is working at the fringe of the haplogroup I
population, with haplotypes which don't look like I1a, I1c or even I1b. The
numbers of haplotypes is not great, so anything which reduces occasional
leakage of an outside haplogroup's haplotype into this set needs to be done.

In summary: I need many-marker examples of haplotypes which have been SNP
tested P19+ and P37-, also called I x I1b.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: [DNA] Wanted: P19+ but P37- FTDNA Test Results

> I am researching the "early days" and new frontiers of yHaplogroup I.
This means haplotypes which fall into I but are not I1a, I1b, or I1c.
Extended haplotypes of many markers are desired, because the Rootsi et al
paper which has a few I* haplotypes only uses a few markers. Today I found
what is probably one example of what I am looking for. It has been measured
P19+ and P37- by FTDNA, but it clearly is not I1a or I1c as we know them.
So that leaves I* or I1* (the ambiguity again due to P38 not being freed
> If any of you have had a FTDNA SNP test result of P19+ plus P37- then I
would love to have a chance to see your extended haplotype and include its
properties in my database. With enough, we can possibly build up a distinct
modal haplotype for this which would be useful for quick identification of
these rare birds.
> Ken
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