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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-07 > 1120505260


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Scot R1a
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:27:40 -0600
References: <070420051909.22394.42C989770006B2C00000577A2207021553050B989A0E00@comcast.net>


David, Did you mean 390,19,391 = 25/15/11 motif to go with the 19,21 at
YCAIIa,b?

I was reviewing my old messages on this and find that DYS447 = 23 also goes
strongly with this variety, while 24 is the more common R1a value.

Also, the only YHRD regions especially high in this 25/15/11 R1a were "Oslo"
and "Central". I learned from the YHRD administrator in control of the
Norwegian contributions that "Central" takes in the Trondelag coastal region
(home of my grandfather and many of his autosomal genes).

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Scot R1a


> Eric, Ken:
>
> There is a high degree of variability (diversity) in R1a but generally it
is fairly easy to spot some clusters. For example there are regions in
Poland where DYS19=17 is modal and virtually universal and yet a 17 would be
rare as hens teeth in Scandinavia.
>
> The Western England / Wales version described by Ken certainly does not
conform to the "typical" R1a that can be attributed to Norse Viking
influence. It is unclear where this may have arose and I would be only
guessing.
>
> The 24/15/11 (19,21 or 20) motif described by Ken is seen in 100% of my
Shetlanders who have aboriginal surnames. It is also seen in approximately
40% of Norwegians. The other 60% is apparently indistinguishable from
Eastern European R1a. It is the above motif which I have proposed comes
from Central Asia via the Huns (along with some Q, K, and C3 haplotypes) and
is reflected in the fact that my uncle (Shetland in paternal line) has
almost no even close matches with any European outside Norway and Iceland
(except Hungarian and Slovakian who are also likely Hun origin), and all
near matches are with those from India, China, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and
most particularly the Altai where there are more matches with this one
Central Asian tribe than all other groups together.
>
> David F.
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > Eric, There are bunches of messages on both in the archives. The SW
> > England/Wales R1a has 10 at DYS388; most all R1a has 12. It also has
> > overwhelmingly 10 at 391.
> >
> > The R1a from Norway and seen in some clans of Scotland has 25/15/11
(19,21)
> > at DYS390,19,391, YCAIIa,b 19,23 is the normal motif in R1a at YCAIIa,b.
> >
> > Ken
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eric Olson"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 12:40 PM
> > Subject: [DNA] Scot R1a
> >
> >
> > > Ken wrote:
> > >
> > > "There is a very unique Norwegian variety of R1a which also shows up
in
> > > several clans of Scotland. There is also a very unique variety of R1a
> > > which primarily shows up in Wales and SW England."
> > >
> > > Without meaning to impose upon your time, could you characterize these
two
> > unique varieties of R1a? Or point me in a direction to where I might
find
> > the data. Is it the YCAII-b = 21 that Doug mentions? Or something else?
> > >
> > > Eric Olson
> > > Seattle
>
>
> ==============================
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>


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