GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-09 > 1127079708
From: David Faux <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Scots R1b..a follow up
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
I think that it might be unfortunate if we were to talk about just Scotland or Ireland without noting regional diversity.
However to answer your question, most studies have found that Scotland is bimodal for R1b.
Using DYS19/390/391/392/393, in Scotand "AMH 14/24/11/13/13" and 14/24/10/13/13 are in about about equal proportions. In Ireland, however, or course depending on the sample, a typical finding would be a predominance of 14/24/11/13/13, and about two thirds as much 14/24/10/13/13, also *14/25/11/14/13* and a third as much 14/23/11/13/13 and 14/25/11/13/13. Thus what is most clear about Ireland is that there are very strong subclusters not seen to the same degree elsewhere, one in particular which I have flagged with a * which David W. has discussed at length. It is very seldom seen in Scotland - never in some samples.
Thus I maintain that there are at least 4 noteworthy clusters in Ireland, for example, and if I had anything to say about this they would be "Irish Clusters A through D" whereas over the water we find "Scottish Clusters A and B" are the only significant ones detectable at the macroscopic level although 14/23/11/13/13 could be a candidate for Cluster C - assuming that these could be shown to *not* be due to simple convergence / divergence. This is where extended haplotype studies become so salient as there could well be other clusters waiting to be discovered.
The above are important apparent differences between Scotland and Ireland and worthy of the study now underway.
It was said...."Personally I don't like handles such as "Scots R1b" when in
fact this pattern is a minority in Scotland." May I understand, is the Atlantic
Modal the majority haplotype of R1b in Scotland? I would assume so, but I
just thought I would check. Margretta