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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Basics on Ethnic Groups - Celts, Scots, Picts
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:56:01 -0600
References: <20050919022403.70665.qmail@web33009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Greg, I got excited when I saw the Trinity College, Dublin in your message.
But it seems a false alert. There was supposed to be a comprehensive paper
coming out of there concerning the haplotypes of Ireland, with lots and lots
of fresh data to base it on. Such a paper apparently has not yet appeared.

I have a pretty good idea about the amount of I1b and I1c in the British
Isles. There really is hardly any I1b in spite of what you said earlier
today. I have no idea if the tiny amount of I1b that is in the Isles can be
traced back to Clan Chieftans? Usually such clan bosses have access to the
females and leave lots of descendants; why don't we see more I1b?

I1c in the Isles is more common. There are two quite distinct strains of
I1c in the British Isles --- Northern I1c which looks a lot like that found
in AngloSaxony and Scandinavia. And there is the "Isles" I1c which has very
few examples found on the continent. This latter type of I1c could easily
be envisioned as having got to the Isles prior to Roman times. This needs
to be researched in more depth, and I am hoping the three SNPs M284, P78,
and P95 which fall within the I1c population could be used to shed light on
this. And there are some more reported SNPs falling in the zone of I1b and
I1c which may soon be announced by others and could be helpful.

While new, well-placed SNPs can help guide us at the major intersections of
the road system in haplotype space, what really is needed to see the
population terrain is a high quality database of extended British Isles
haplotypes; that's why I got so excited at the mention of Trinity College.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg W. Moore" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Basics on Ethnic Groups - Celts, Scots, Picts


> Ken,
>
> Do you know anything about this report by Trinity College, Dublin:
>
> "... However at this time there were other groups of "proto - Celts"
> residing in Ireland and perhaps Shetland who carried a different Y-DNA
> signature, "I1b" and/or "I1c" which is considered to be a remanant of the
> neolithic people who arrived from the Middle East, bringing with them
> agricultural practices and different cultural traditions. This haplogroup
> has been reported among up to 20% of the Clan Chieftans of the Ulster and
> the Scottish Highlands - who claim to be of Pictish descent.



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