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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-09 > 1127105960
From: David Faux <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ethnic Migrations Across Europe
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:59:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20050919041821.71578.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Not so Greg. The "history" of R1a in Scandinavia is unknown. I do know that 40% of Norwegian R1a and 100% of Shetlanders with aboriginal surnames have haplotypes that bear almost no resemblance to Slavic types. For example in Poland DYS19 = 17 is modal in many regions. Norway is bimodal with 15 and 16 vying for supremacy. All of the Slavic countries sampled so far have universal YCAIIa,b = 19, 23. 40% of Norwegians and 100% of the above Shetlanders have either 19,21 or 19,20. While there are some Norwegians whose haplotype is indistinguishable from Slavic versions, as I indicated there is a substantial component of Norwegian R1a types who are indistinguishable from Central Asians as far east as the Altai Mountains where their haplotype predominates. In other words the tapestry of R1a in Norway (let alone considering the other Scandinavian countries) is very complex.
R1b is also likely very mixed. There will be those who I suspect blasted out of the refugia in Anatolia or Iberia or Italy and headed north following the retreating ice 10,000 years ago (when archaeological evidence begins to emerge in Norway). Others were doubtless brought over as slaves from Ireland and Britain throughout the Viking era and are believed to for example make up about 20% of the male Y chromosomes in Iceland.
Anyway, I guess I have made my point. I wish in a way things were a little cleaner but in Britain and Ireland R1a is a signal of Norwegian Viking activity; I1a is either Norse or Danish or Anglo - Saxon, I1c is probably mostly aboriginal to the British Isles, and R1b is anyone's guess. I am simplifying of course - but this is likely largely true.
David Faux.
Greg W. Moore" <> wrote:
David,
Yes - but all those (cultural) Norwegian Vikings (the "R1a"s) came originally from the Slavic areas of Eastern Europe. The same applies to the Norwegian Vikings who are "R1b"s - they came from Ireland, Scotland and possibly from Germany, as well as the Norwegian Vikings who are "I"s and "I1a"s (in this case they are both ethnic and cultural Vikings) came to Scandinavia through Denmark from Germany and earlier from the Balkans ...
Roughly ...
Greg
David Faux wrote:Greg:
This matter has been explored extensively and there is general agreement that the R1a in Britain is from Norwegian Vikings sources, found in the regions that historical documentation states was settled by these invaders - for example the North and East of Scotland (Sutherland, Caithness, Aberdeen). See Wilson et al. (2001).
David Faux.
"Greg W. Moore" wrote:
Peter,
In the genealogical terms - certainly YES. But, because the present Wallace family reports the R1a haplogroup the speculation at the time (November 2004) was that ethnically he came from the R1a Slavic aeras some, may be, two thousand years ago ...
Greg
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