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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-09 > 1127601223


From: victor villarreal <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Strange E3b results - need help with interpretation
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:33:43 -0500
References: <BKEPIIDHHKEPCMDIEBKBOEEICLAA.andrew.en.inge@skynet.be> <4335A659.6050001@foothill.net>
In-Reply-To: <4335A659.6050001@foothill.net>


Hello Bill,

Interesting observations you make about the deviations of your E3b haplotype
from the modal values of the E3b project.

My haplotype is also listed at the same project but at the 25 marker level
only. In my case only 7 out of the 25 deviate from the modal.

I think it is difficult to determine if your haplotype is one of the more
ancient deviations from the original or not, although it could be so. That
assumption presupposes that the number of mutations is a direct function of
time alone, which I don't think it is.

Although I don't have any basis for it, my hunch is that mutations in the
non-recombining segment of the Y chromosome are affected by an indeterminate
number of influences, like external environmental factors, the diet of the
individual and certain diseases, among other things; even the age at which a
male procreates could be a deciding factor in producing a new mutation.

For example, in our surname project I have two 25/25 matches, three 24/25
matches, one 23/25 match and one 22/25 match, and we all share a MRCA at
about 10 or 11 generations back. I think that as more and more results are
available where all those variables can be analized we'll be able to
understand better what are the causes of those STR mutations. Just my
opinion.

Victor

On 9/24/05, William L Harvey <> wrote:
>
> All E3b interested? listers, - your comments are welcomed,
>
> My question is whether I am correctly interpreting the following results
> as meaning my E3b haplotype is one of the more ancient deviations from
> the original E3b ancestral haplotype? - or has my line just encountered
> a greater than normal number of mutations?
>
> My haplotype is one of thirteen total 37-marker test results found
> within the 39 testees who have joined the E3b Project at FTDNA thus far.
> I have been SNP tested by FTDNA as E3b M35+
>
> Whit Athey's original calculator gives me a 29% probability of being E3b
> (highest % result estimated vs. all other haplogroups by version 1.20).
>
> Whit's revised version 2.15 increases the probability to 38% E3b with J
> estimated next highest probability at 28%.
>
> These estimates qualify only as a "fair fit" with Whit's E3b modal values.
>
> I have by far the highest number of mutations from the E3b modal values
> exhibited by the FTDNA E3b Project 37-marker results posted thus far.
>
> My E3b haplotype has 22 mutations of the total 37 markers tested. Six
> of these mutations are unique thus far as they are the only values noted
> for their specific markers for the entire reported population of 39
> testees. Three of these "unique" mutations are within the 2nd segment
> and three are within the 3rd segment of FTDNA's Y-DNA testing phases.
> The average number of mutations for the other 12 testees of 37-marker
> level is 12.6 mutations per haplotype.
>
> The E3b Geographic Project URL is :
>
> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/freemanDNAProject/
>
> My results are listed under Kit # 19310.
>
> A 4th cousin has an identical 37/37 marker match with me although he has
> not done the SNP evaluation. The MRCA is documented as having been born
> in 1758. We have no 12/25/37 marker matches in any of the
> Haplotype/Haplogroup databases other than each other. My brother and I
> have both submitted samples to SMGF but our results have not been posted
> as yet.
>
> I plan on doing further testing with EthnoAncestry when the E3b test
> program is offered.
>
> I will welcome any analysis or thoughts you might have for consideration.
>
> Bill Harvey
>
>

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