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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1128154411


From: "John McEwan" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] More S21 Results
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 20:13:31 +1200
In-Reply-To: <00ae01c5c64a$b2964800$c10358db@Marsh>


Dear David and Alister

I am happy to do whatever David's clients want. I only created the table
because none was available and as age creeps on, list making seems to
become a necessity rather than an option. Obviously I am intensely
interested in sorting out R1b.

Unpaid independent consultant (but formally bound by ethnoancestry
conditions) is okay with me.

Like many I am extremely sensitive regards the privacy of individual
data, having worked as a consultant to various individuals and companies
for many years. This is one reason why I use Ysearch rather than
burrowing in semi-private databases for material I tabulate. In this
regard, even if a person's results have already been released publicly,
but they have had second thoughts just contact me privately and I will
remove their name from the table (mcewanj at xtra.co.nz).

I could see that data could be provided to me in any combination of
these ways depending on customers individual wishes:
1) "published" with surname, Ysearch ID, origin, and SNP results
2) anonymous identifier, origin, haplotype and SNP results
3) anonymous identifier, origin, and SNP results

As an aside William Hurst ZV3N9 is an example of a person who has
already entered his SNP results into Ysearch but in a non searchable
format.

Cheers

John McEwan



-----Original Message-----
From: Alister John Marsh [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2005 5:40 p.m.
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results

Hi David,

Personally, I think if John McEwan was acting as an "honorary research
consultant for EA", and you linked to his results from your web site, it
would be within the spirit of your agreement with participants. (If
John
was working for free, he would be on the same salary as the managing
director! You are not disqualifed from publishing the data just because
you
don't work for wages.)

If he tabulated the data, and emailed it to you, you could "first"
publish
the raw data to the net an an appendage to the S21 page of your web
site,
which would be completely in accordance with your agreement with persons
tested. Once it was "first" published that way, it would be public
knowledge, then John could publish to his own web site, and play
analysis
games etc.

I think the persons S21 positive (and negative) would be all keen to
benefit
from John's analysis. This analysis adds value to their results. From
the
analysis point of view, knowing the negative haplotypes is just as
important
as knowing the positive haplotypes.

If you still are nervous, you could give John access to the full data,
but
just allow him to publish statistical summaries of the data, eg "60%
have
modal values of a,b,c,d, at markers w,x,y,z.". But full haplotypes are
what
the punters want!

Regards,
John.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] More S21 Results


> Excellent work John.
>
> I have a lot more data that could be added to your informative charts,
and
I have permission from customers to use the data for research purposes.
This includes an ok to create a public database including surname, date
and
place of birth of earliest known ancestor in the male line, and the
haplotype. The concept was that Ethnoancestry would do this work, but
clearly at the moment we are so busy trying to keep up with demand that
the
database has taken a back seat.
>
> Is there anyone who can see a possible breach of ethics if I was to
turn
over the R1b customer data, but not the name of the customer (for those
who
have given me written permission to use their data to further our
knowledge
of the link between haplotypes, geographic region and so on) so that
John
could spearhead the creation of a public database - in a sense as a
representative of Ethnoancestry? This would be advantageous to all,
inlcuding each who has taken the S21 test, but I must be respectful of
my
customer's wishes first and foremost. I must do some thinking about
this,
but if anyone would perceive this as unacceptable I need to know about
it
(customer's, off List replies please - and only from any who think that
this
contravenes our agreement).
>
> David Faux.
>
> John McEwan <> wrote:
>
>
> Dear List
>
> After a busy week at a conference have returned to browse the many
> messages on the list. I have been keeping notes on publicly reported
R1b
> SNP results as I have found it is the only way to actually understand
> the postings. To help others I have made a summary of these results
> available on my web site.
>
> Note the link to Ysearch finds all people who have tested at least 30
> markers and up to 2 mismatches.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/s21.htm
>
> Comments, errors, overlooked and new results appreciated. In the
latter
> category not only those that have tested for S21, but also those that
> are M269- and M343+ or any other values.
>
> Cheers
>
> John McEwan
>
>
>
>
> Dr. David K.W. Faux
> President
> Ethnoancestry USA, Inc.
> www.ethnodna.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================
> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your
ancestors
at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more:
http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=1459
9&targetid=5429
>


==============================
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