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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:35:02 -0600
References: <20051001075303.31343.qmail@web50713.mail.yahoo.com> <00b101c5c698$aae4b0d0$0a139a8e@PeterAKincaid> <000401c5c6a0$ecd18bf0$71509045@Ken1> <000f01c5c6bd$4c852540$90129a8e@PeterAKincaid>


Yes, Peter I did think about it. If AngloSaxons brought their I1a with them
to the British Isles, then they also brought the R1b that was in their
population back in Anglo Saxony. They did not yet have DNAH and other such
labs to sort themselves out before they got on their boats.

Once the AngloSaxons and other invaders/immigrants such as the Danes and
Norwegians got to the British Isles they became part of the gene pool
thereafter. They could have moved up into the lowlands of Scotland anytime
from their first arrivals to later periods. Too bad Capelli does not have a
distinct region in his survey of Britain to represent the lowlands of
Scotland. It is generally thought that the Anglo/Saxons/Danes who settled
in England also moved up to settle the lowlands of Scotland and short of the
Highlands at various periods after their arrival in the Isles. Since we
don't have Capelli at the moment, I'll have to put together the statistic
another way that you might find interesting.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results


> Well Ken this is a case where you quickly comment on a post
> without apparently thinking too much about what you are saying
> (no worry as I have been there). Kincaids are R1b while most of
> the Hamiltons are I1a. There is no connection whatsoever!
>
> Would you explain your position that there was a heavy influx
> of Anglo Saxons in the Strathclyde area? First of all, the term
> Anglo Saxon is related to the 5th to 11th century. In this period
> Strathclyde was a separate British Kingdom and nobody has
> held the position that there was an influx of foreigners. From the
> Norman period on there came a few families as overlords. The
> one to acquire the largest part of the Strathclyde kingdom was
> the Stewarts who originated from Brittany. The were a few other
> patriarchs who were not British but I'd hardly call a handful of
> "overlord patriarchs" a heavy influx.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results
>
>
>>I don't think people are dancing around your Kincaids. They seem to be
>>right in the bullseye, having all the characteristics of the Frisian
>>cluster. You even have the modal 15,16,17,18 at DYS464. Strathclyde has
>>had a heavy influx of continental AngloSaxons. My Hamiltons as well as
>>many other lowland Scots from that region are a form of I1a which most
>>likely came from AngloSaxony or Denmark.
>>
>> I think you should go buy the S21 test; chances are good you are derived
>> at S21.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 8:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results
>>
>>
>>> Boy you guys are dancing around our Kincaids who are (as I noted some
>>> time ago)
>>>
>>> DYS439=11
>>> DYS447=24
>>> DYS448=18
>>>
>>> They are also DYS390=23 and H4=10. On DYS391
>>> they are a mix of 11s and 12s. As they are in the heart
>>> of the Strathclyde British territories the first hypothesis
>>> is that they are British. They could turn out otherwise.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Faux" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 4:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results
>>>
>>>
>>>> David:
>>>>
>>>> If I can release the data I have then there will be more S21+
>>>> haplotypes
>>>> to explore for clues. Right now we "suffer" from a woeful lack of hard
>>>> data. This is in the process of changing. I agree that we need to be
>>>> able to test specific hypotheses that are supported by the evidence. I
>>>> think I see a few patterns emerging, but they may be an illusion
>>>> occasioned by small sample sizes.
>>>>
>>>> David Faux.
>>>>
>
>
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