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From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:51:43 -0300
References: <20051001075303.31343.qmail@web50713.mail.yahoo.com> <00b101c5c698$aae4b0d0$0a139a8e@PeterAKincaid> <000401c5c6a0$ecd18bf0$71509045@Ken1> <000f01c5c6bd$4c852540$90129a8e@PeterAKincaid> <000801c5c6bf$3791c380$71509045@Ken1>


Please remember that the Strathclyde area, like Wales, remained
British until the time of the Normans. The only real impact of
foreigners had to be during the Roman period and from the Norman
period.

On the other hand there was part of southern Scotland that was
heavily impacted by foreigners. This was first the east part and it
was the Angles who dominated. They set up the kingdoms of
Deira and Bernicia which joined to become Northumbria. The
southwest part, Galloway area, was also overrun by foreigners.
I don't argue at all that southern Scotland is a mix but the Strathclyde
area has to be treated in a different manner due to its survival
for a much longer period.

I agree it would be nice if Capelli had sampled the area. However,
today, the genetic makeup of the Strathclyde area is much different
than 400 years ago. The influx of other people from the Industrial
Age on had a huge impact.

Peter






----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results


> Yes, Peter I did think about it. If AngloSaxons brought their I1a with
> them to the British Isles, then they also brought the R1b that was in
> their population back in Anglo Saxony. They did not yet have DNAH and
> other such labs to sort themselves out before they got on their boats.
>
> Once the AngloSaxons and other invaders/immigrants such as the Danes and
> Norwegians got to the British Isles they became part of the gene pool
> thereafter. They could have moved up into the lowlands of Scotland
> anytime from their first arrivals to later periods. Too bad Capelli does
> not have a distinct region in his survey of Britain to represent the
> lowlands of Scotland. It is generally thought that the Anglo/Saxons/Danes
> who settled in England also moved up to settle the lowlands of Scotland
> and short of the Highlands at various periods after their arrival in the
> Isles. Since we don't have Capelli at the moment, I'll have to put
> together the statistic another way that you might find interesting.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] More S21 Results
>
>
>> Well Ken this is a case where you quickly comment on a post
>> without apparently thinking too much about what you are saying
>> (no worry as I have been there). Kincaids are R1b while most of
>> the Hamiltons are I1a. There is no connection whatsoever!
>>
>> Would you explain your position that there was a heavy influx
>> of Anglo Saxons in the Strathclyde area? First of all, the term
>> Anglo Saxon is related to the 5th to 11th century. In this period
>> Strathclyde was a separate British Kingdom and nobody has
>> held the position that there was an influx of foreigners. From the
>> Norman period on there came a few families as overlords. The
>> one to acquire the largest part of the Strathclyde kingdom was
>> the Stewarts who originated from Brittany. The were a few other
>> patriarchs who were not British but I'd hardly call a handful of
>> "overlord patriarchs" a heavy influx.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>

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