Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1128338184

From: "John McEwan" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Hello group.. Need some feed back. please
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:16:24 +1300
In-Reply-To: <00c101c5c7fb$5fd01bc0$8027ba46@patdrxrkrab4o7>

Dear Pat

I don't know if I can help. I checked out the 37 STR haplotype you
provided in Ysearch. It matches with a group calls "Isles" I1c
haplogroup and there is a single Ysearch Spencer listed there Ysearch ID
JGNPP, origin listed as from Tennessee. I assume this is the same

The cluster can be viewed at:

Magnify it to about 800% and your Spencer should be third from top in
that group.

Ken Nordtvelt is better placed to comment about the likely
(pre)historical origins of the Isles haplogroup.

Regards the McWhirter connection... Well if you examine Ysearch you do
get a lot of perfect matches to McWhirter's, some from Tennessee, but
they have only been scored at 12 markers. To be a believable
non-paternity event you would need at least a 35/37 or better match. A
Gillespie Ysearch ID MXBRC is only 3 markers distant from the Spencer at
37 markers and is also in the same "Isles" group. Using default
parameters in Dean McGee's calculator suggests they may have a common
ancestor ~350 years ago. In reality this time could differ markedly
perhaps up to 1000 yrs ago.

This gets to the Spencer name itself. In 1881 there were 27,326 Spencers
in Britain, most were in Yorkshire West Riding or Lancashire (~10,000)
and most of the balance were in surrounding counties. Such a common
name, even if geographically clustered is bound to have a number of
"strands" many of them quite old.

What to do in your case? Well Ken can tell you something about the
likely history of the Isles I1c haplogroup, but regards more recent
history I would be tempted to get one of the Tennessee McWhirter's to
expand to a 37 marker test, if they really did live next door. If they
don't match closely at 37 markers then that is one nagging option closed

As an aside the McWhirter's had quite a concentration in Ayrshire,
Scotland in 1881 (719 in total) and you can read more about them at

Hope this has been of some use

John McEwan

-----Original Message-----
From: Patricia [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2005 10:18 p.m.
Subject: Re: [DNA] Hello group.. Need some feed back. please

Lynn, who took charge of our part of the family and getting set up I
was told by the Spencer that it seemed unlikely that there would be a
for any Spencer. IF not by the Spencer maybe the FTM

Some one ventured to say that we were closer to McWhirters. Lynn, did
that back in 1700s there were McWhirters lived next door to the
Spencers. .
But that was so many years ago..... don't know if that is an avenue we
find any connection to Spencers...................... what can we do to
in or out the McWhirter idea? Can you even tell what nationality we
English, Irish we have never know.......that either.

Thank Dave,


----- Original Message -----
From: "David F Reynolds" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Hello group.. Need some feed back. please

> Patricia,
> What data point is leading you to suspect a non-paternity event?
> you have a very solid paper trail proving a relationship, the simplest

> assumption is that your hg I1c Spencers are simply a different line of

> Spencers, not related to the R1b Spencers who predominate in the the
> results. And even with a solid paper trail, you should not rule out
> possibility of an error in the paper trail.
> Regards,
> david
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:17:28 -0700, Patricia <> wrote:
>> In light of the recent exchange of non paternity results. I am trying
>> send the list the information about my line. Above is the Spencer
>> where our tests were listed. From the list of results our group is
>> Number 15 at the button of the list. We are Spencer for 8
>> and have many hundreds of people in our line. Some have already give
>> others don't understand about not being Spencers. I am wondering are
>> dead in the water? is there any thing else we can do to find our
>> group? is there any thing we cal learn from this information?
>> Nationality? I have transcribed the results of the person that had
>> 37 marker test. The best I can tell the other three that had 12
>> done are identical. One has a I for a haplo none is listed for the
>> three.
>> haplo-393-390-19-391--385a-
>> I 15 24 15 10 15 16 11 13 11 13 12
>> 29 16 8 9 11 11 26 15 20 27 11 11 15

>> 15 10 10
> ==============================
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