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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1128411113


From: "John McEwan" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Question on the 570 marker?
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:31:53 +1300
In-Reply-To: <E1EMei5-0006TZ-00@pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Dear David

What you say below is possible, the question I have is how probable is
it?

This is a clear simple question that those with some maths (permutations
and combinations) and a bit of time could solve. The whole issue of
convergent haplotypes is raised quite often.

My guess is that the odds (given the current database size) of this
actually occurring is rather unlikely.

The thought goes like this ~16 generations from ancestors 5 mutations
apart and the two convergent mutations occur at separate loci in each
branch, AND no other mutations in any of the other 35 common loci
conditioned on the current database size (say ~20,000 haplotypes) of
which at most ~400 individuals ancestors would be 5 markers away 16
generations ago?

Leave it to others.

Cheers

John McEwan



-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilson [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 5:47 p.m.
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Question on the 570 marker?

Jim,

I'm not sure if you got any private replies to this. I'm pretty sure I
didn't see one on the list.

DYS570 is considered one of the faster moving markers. It has no
importance
on its own. When you have a 36/37 match, the important thing is the
closeness of the match, not the specific marker on which the mismatch
occurs.

But there is a caution: Remember that when you have a close match with
someone who has a different surname, you may be looking at an accidental
match. Here's a thought experiment: Consider two unrelated individuals
who
lived 400 years ago. Let's say their haplotypes differ at five different
loci by one. If the descendants of A accumulate two mutations moving
toward
B, and if the descendants of B accumulate mutations in the other three
moving toward A, you would have a perfect match among living
descendants.
But this would a fluke rather than evidence of common ancestry.

The situation you describe is suggestive, but I would push hard at the
pedigrees and geographical associations of both individuals. The near
match
becomes more interesting if their ancestors were in exactly the same
small
area at the same time.

David Wilson



On 10/1/2005 5:46:21 PM, wrote:
> My Uncle has a 36/37 match and the difference is on the 570 marker.
> My Uncle has a 20 and the other person has a 21.
> We think these lines (Berry) connect somewhere back in VA.
> My question is this - what is this marker and how does it play into
how
> closely they are connect?
> Thanks in Advance for the help. Markers are below.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Mabe 13 22 14 10 13 14 11 14 11 12 11 30 14 8 9 8 11 23 16 20 29
12 14
> 15 16 10 10 19 21 13 14 16 20 35 40 12 10
>
>
> Berry 13 22 14 10 13 14 11 14 11 12 11 30 14 8 9 8 11 23 16 20 29 12
14
> 15 16 10 10 19 21 13 14 16 21 35 40 12 10
>
>
>
> ==============================
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