Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1128989938

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Seperating Danish from Anglo-Saxon?
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:18:58 -0600
References: <BAY107-F295AFD2BB96361DE13796BC8790@phx.gbl>

Russell, All I can say is we will see? If I were to be happy with
expecting what will happen in the gene counts from the historic stories,
there would be little sense in counting the haplotypes.

The settlement of the "Danelaw" by Danish Vikings (circa 800 A.D.) was a
quite distinct thing from the original settlements by Germanic tribes
beginning roughly 450 A.D. These immigration flows were separated by
centuries, and I suspect the cultures of those immigrations were different,
so perhaps the peoples? The naming patterns for hamlets and towns were
certainly different.

I don't how much was known about "Old Danish" 1500 years ago; perhaps a
runic inscription here and there? But by the time of the establishment of
the Danelaw they did talk about a Danish "tonque" as distinct from the
AngloSaxon language, though inter-language intelligibility was probably
fairly good as English in the end has mixed many root words from both

But the bottom line to me is that I am doing genetic genealogy precisely to
try to collect and organize hard science data to independently check and
shed light on the quasi-historic and saga accounts, regardless of how the
chips fall.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Smith" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:54 PM
Subject: [DNA] Seperating Danish from Anglo-Saxon?

Following on from the discussions regarding the possibility of seperating
the Y-DNA of Danish settlers of Britain (Blood of the Vikings) from that of
the Anglo-Saxon-Jutes - I think that this will always remain out of reach,
even probabilistically speaking. 1500 years ago Old Danish and the language
spoken by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes (and Frisians who also settled in
England) was so close as to be mutually intelligible and no doubt there was
frequent intermarriage between these peoples (particularly the Jutes and
Danes who were neighbours).

The contribution of the Jutes to the settlement of England is often
overlooked I think - they settled mainly in Kent, Hampshire and the Isle of
Wight according to the Venerable Bede. And while the traditional homeland of
the Danes (before they settled the Jutland peninsula) was southern Sweden
there is some evidence linking the Angles with southern Sweden as well.
Indeed the kings of Wessex (settled by Angles) traced their ancestry
ultimately to a certain Scyld, who is clearly to be identified with Skiƶldr,
the mythical founder of the Danish royal family (Skiƶldungar). (source

In short, the Jutland peninsula must have been a 'melting pot' of various
Germanic tribes in the early Dark age period and any initial differences in
genetic makeup of the tribes (if there was any) must have been well and
truly blurred over the centuries leading up to the invasion of Britain.

Russell Stephen Smith
Bunbury, Western Australia

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