Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1129031997

From: "Daniel Jenkins" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Seperating Danish from Anglo-Saxon?
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:59:57 +0000
In-Reply-To: <000c01c5cdf9$60026e50$71509045@Ken1>


In Kent , in a matter of less than 50 years , the early Jutes, now natives
of Kent , considered themselves somewhat distinct from the next wave of
settlers in late 400s . The early settlers were primarily living south of
the Medway River and the later settlers were in the northwest area mainly at
Rochester and Greenwich. To this day the southern people refer to themselves
as Men of Kent while those northwest of the Medway are called Kentish Men.
There was some snobbery in this as the first Jutes felt they were more
refined than the later Jutes. Even Roman historians noted this.

Russell , as a note I will be in Tasmania in November visiting my maternal
uncle Dan Gallagher and his wife and seven children. I found them there
after 25 years of searching. Dan was originally from Londonderry , Northern
Ireland . I am bringing a FTDNA Y-DNA test kit to have Dan G. tested in
order to learn more info. about the Gallagher line . The Gallaghers are said
to be of mysterious origins , and some feel they may be of the Spanish Moors
of Milesia in Spain. The results should be interesting. The next step is to
have my sisters dau. tested for her McCool MTDNA . My mothers' mother was a
McCool. All in all shows how DNA for lineage founders are all over the

Dan Jenkins
member " Association of Men of Kent and Kentish Men and Fair Maidens" Weald

>From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
>Subject: Re: [DNA] Seperating Danish from Anglo-Saxon?
>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:18:58 -0600
>Russell, All I can say is we will see? If I were to be happy with
>expecting what will happen in the gene counts from the historic stories,
>there would be little sense in counting the haplotypes.
>The settlement of the "Danelaw" by Danish Vikings (circa 800 A.D.) was a
>quite distinct thing from the original settlements by Germanic tribes
>beginning roughly 450 A.D. These immigration flows were separated by
>centuries, and I suspect the cultures of those immigrations were different,
>so perhaps the peoples? The naming patterns for hamlets and towns were
>certainly different.
>I don't how much was known about "Old Danish" 1500 years ago; perhaps a
>runic inscription here and there? But by the time of the establishment of
>the Danelaw they did talk about a Danish "tonque" as distinct from the
>AngloSaxon language, though inter-language intelligibility was probably
>fairly good as English in the end has mixed many root words from both
>But the bottom line to me is that I am doing genetic genealogy precisely to
>try to collect and organize hard science data to independently check and
>shed light on the quasi-historic and saga accounts, regardless of how the
>chips fall.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Smith"
>To: <>
>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:54 PM
>Subject: [DNA] Seperating Danish from Anglo-Saxon?
>Following on from the discussions regarding the possibility of seperating
>the Y-DNA of Danish settlers of Britain (Blood of the Vikings) from that of
>the Anglo-Saxon-Jutes - I think that this will always remain out of reach,
>even probabilistically speaking. 1500 years ago Old Danish and the
>spoken by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes (and Frisians who also settled in
>England) was so close as to be mutually intelligible and no doubt there was
>frequent intermarriage between these peoples (particularly the Jutes and
>Danes who were neighbours).
>The contribution of the Jutes to the settlement of England is often
>overlooked I think - they settled mainly in Kent, Hampshire and the Isle of
>Wight according to the Venerable Bede. And while the traditional homeland
>the Danes (before they settled the Jutland peninsula) was southern Sweden
>there is some evidence linking the Angles with southern Sweden as well.
>Indeed the kings of Wessex (settled by Angles) traced their ancestry
>ultimately to a certain Scyld, who is clearly to be identified with
>the mythical founder of the Danish royal family (Skildungar). (source
>In short, the Jutland peninsula must have been a 'melting pot' of various
>Germanic tribes in the early Dark age period and any initial differences in
>genetic makeup of the tribes (if there was any) must have been well and
>truly blurred over the centuries leading up to the invasion of Britain.
>Russell Stephen Smith
>Bunbury, Western Australia
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