GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1130012768
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] I1a1 & DYS462
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:26:08 -0600
References: <008a01c5d715$2d8abfc0$4d423947@YOURF8387228BF> <000601c5d727$cda92d40$6400a8c0@Skip> <01ec01c5d732$d489bb60$4d423947@YOURF8387228BF> <001401c5d734$17c7f9e0$71509045@Ken1> <email@example.com> <000801c5d73b$7ad292f0$71509045@Ken1> <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Phil, I did not have you down on my list of Kittler testees. But there is
interesting entry from Doug Hogarth who I have also having your 15,23,13,14
at 19,390,385a,b plus a 13 at DYS462. He was high, low also. I wonder if I
entered an erroneous name on that haplotype? I will check.
If I confirm that my I1a4 dna sample is negative for P40 (with results
overdue), and you turn out positive for P40, the an M227 test would not seem
to make sense. If either of those P40 tests turned out unexpectedly, then
I'd say go for it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Ritter" <>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] I1a1 & DYS462
> Thanks Ken, Dave and Phil,
> I've ordered the P40 test and will await the kit and results. Would it be
> helpful to add a test for M227 (I1a4)?
> I did do the Kittler test with (then) Biotix and had DYS385a(K)=14,
> I should mention that I've only had one near match (33/37) and that is
> with someone who almost certainly shares a common Ritter ancestor (a
> descendant of Franz Ritter b. ca. 1710 Berks Co., PA; I am likely
> descended from Franz's brother Henry, but have no proof). Descendants
> claim to have come from Eppingen, Germany (near Heidleburg, alternately
> part of the Pfaltz and Baden) so would defiantly be of south-central
> German origin (although again I have seen no proof of this origin). They
> share all of my deviations from Athey's modal I1a1 except that they have a
> 23 for DYS447 (the modal) and I have a 24. My match is ID #AWF6G in
> y-search but appears to have only entered their first 12 markers.
> At 12:04 PM 10/22/2005, you wrote:
>>Phil, You have such an unusual I1a haplotype in several respects, though
>>I have no doubt it is I1a, a P40 test would be in order in my opinion.
>>Also, a Kittler order test at DYS385a,b would be most informative. You
>>are likely a down mutation from 14,14 at this marker because of the other
>>signs of being a Norse variety (although the name sounds very German). If
>>your 13,14 is a down mutation from 14,14 it stands a 50/50 chance of being
>>high,low or low, high. If it is an old modal 13,14 then it will almost
>>always be high,low as our statistics from 14 tests indicates.
>>We are always on the look out for the first I1a to be found negative for
>>P40. You would think the academics who first put the I1a2, I1a3, and I1a4
>>in the tree and declared P40 the entrance SNP for I1a1 would have tested
>>those other three for P40 and found them negative so as to justify their
>>positioning of P40? But the academics don't read the list so we will
>>never know? I'm a bit tired of unanswered messages to some of them asking
>>such questions? So we are having tested at the moment a I1a4 haplotype
>>for P40 to see if we can find an ancestral P40 haplotype within I1a?
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Ritter" <>
>>Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:44 PM
>>Subject: Re: [DNA] I1a1 & DYS462
>>>We've talked about my I1a in the distant past, but I don't recall if you
>>>considered me Norse I1a or otherwise. I have DYS426=13 (see full set of
>>>values at ysearch, ID PNMGC). I guess it's time for me to take the P40
>>>test (I took the P30 test from Trace Genetics and was declared positive
>>>for I1a1 back when their was some confusion over whether P40 or P30
>>>indicated I1a1). It looks like people who have tested for P40 have been
>>>using EthnoAncestry. I could not find where to order the P40 test on
>>>their webpage. How would I order a P40 test from them (forgive me if
>>>this has been discussed and I missed it).
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