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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1131560918


From: "D. Wilson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 10:28:38 -0800
References: <001101c5e552$9149a990$f3de0818@mycomputer>


Lewis, I looked at the Harts on Ysearch and what you describe is completely
possible result depending on which Harts you are comparing. For example,
7FZUQ and 8Q274 both look like "Frisian" R1b, and that's where most of the
S21+ samples that are publicly known have been landing. But if you look at
3599R, that does not fit the "Frisian" pattern and in fact has some of the
modal values of R1b clusters that are usually found to be S21-. So it is
completely possible for several of your Harts to be M269+ (that is, R1b1c --
R1b for short) and yet be distinguished from one another on the basis of
S21.

For an at-a-glance comparison, look at the DYS464 values. If you see
15-16-17-18, think Frisian R1b and S21+. If you see 15-15-17-17, think
mainstream R1b and S21-.

I am NOT offering that comparison as a completely reliable diagnostic tool
for predicting S21 status. It's just a rough rule of thumb that seems to
have some authority based on what we know now. We need to know a lot more
about the S21 haplotypes and their variation. I'm still hoping EA will be
able to have a big report out by the end of December, as David F. once
indicated they might. In the interim, John McEwan's S21 page is doing a very
good job of keeping us all up to date on this situation.

David Wilson


----- Original Message -----
From: "LewisHart" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: [DNA] S21


> David Faux,
> I match one of my participants in the Hart group with all markers
> upstream and including M269+. All markers down stream of M269+ are
> negative. He has S21- and I have S21+. Does that sound like a typo or is
> it to early to make a judgement with S21?
>
>
> ==============================
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