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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1131561356


From: "D. Wilson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 10:37:57 -0800
References: <001101c5e552$9149a990$f3de0818@mycomputer> <000601c5e55b$6711eda0$3201a8c0@southcoastplaza.com>


And I guess I should have studied John McEwan's S21 page
(http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/s21.htm) before I submitted that last
post, because I see that is where the distinction you described is
reflected.

Hart 7FZUQ is part of John's Cluster 22 ("Frisian") and Hart SMTNE is
grouped with Cluster 18. SMTNE actually has 15-15-16-17 at 464, but that is
still closer to the R1b overall modal than it is to Frisian modal.

Both these guys may have the surname Hart, but they belong to separate
family lines. Their last common ancestor lived long before the adoption of
surnames.

David Wilson




----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Wilson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] S21


> Lewis, I looked at the Harts on Ysearch and what you describe is
> completely possible result depending on which Harts you are comparing. For
> example, 7FZUQ and 8Q274 both look like "Frisian" R1b, and that's where
> most of the S21+ samples that are publicly known have been landing. But if
> you look at 3599R, that does not fit the "Frisian" pattern and in fact has
> some of the modal values of R1b clusters that are usually found to be
> S21-. So it is completely possible for several of your Harts to be M269+
> (that is, R1b1c -- R1b for short) and yet be distinguished from one
> another on the basis of S21.
>
> For an at-a-glance comparison, look at the DYS464 values. If you see
> 15-16-17-18, think Frisian R1b and S21+. If you see 15-15-17-17, think
> mainstream R1b and S21-.
>
> I am NOT offering that comparison as a completely reliable diagnostic tool
> for predicting S21 status. It's just a rough rule of thumb that seems to
> have some authority based on what we know now. We need to know a lot more
> about the S21 haplotypes and their variation. I'm still hoping EA will be
> able to have a big report out by the end of December, as David F. once
> indicated they might. In the interim, John McEwan's S21 page is doing a
> very good job of keeping us all up to date on this situation.
>
> David Wilson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LewisHart" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:25 AM
> Subject: [DNA] S21
>
>
>> David Faux,
>> I match one of my participants in the Hart group with all markers
>> upstream and including M269+. All markers down stream of M269+ are
>> negative. He has S21- and I have S21+. Does that sound like a typo or is
>> it to early to make a judgement with S21?
>>
>>
>> ==============================
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>
>
> ==============================
> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors
> at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more:
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>

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