Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1131749854

From: "D. Wilson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Irish and Scottish and Frisian R1b - Another Question
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:59:32 -0800
References: <>

Jim, that's the second time in a week I have seen a haplotype with 385b=16, 458=18, and 456/570 both = 15. The other is from a person who contacted me off list. Is this a trend?

Yes, R1b. It is a virtual certainty that your P25 SNP test (that's the one FTDNA uses instead of M269) will come back positive.

You have an unusual haplotype that lies at some distance from the modal values for R1b. You are correct that this is not close to what we have called the Irish and Scot varieties of R1b, but remember that R1b haplotypes in both Ireland and Scotland can show great variation. The nicknames apply only to definable clusters within the great variety. It is definitely possible to be Irish or Scot or Scots-Irish without belonging to one of the nicknamed varieties of R1b.

Here's a link to a comparison of your haplotype with R1b modal:

If that is too long and breaks, here's a condensed version:

The genetic distance is 13, which is big. The most interesting markers to me are the ones where you differ by two steps rather than just one: 385b and 570. If you'd like to see how frequently these alleles appear in R1b, you can check out Whit Athey's Super-WAMH summary page:

(Because of different sample sizes, Whit's determined modal value for CDYa differs from the one I put in Ysearch record C7BED. The difference is irrelevant in this context.)

Notice that your values for 385b and 570 are rare rare rare -- one percent and one-third percent respectively. It's tough to generalize about such an unusual pattern.

You might want to look at this comparison for a moment and see if you think there is anything there to investigate further. The genetic distance is still great, but you match on some unusual values.

Again, a condensed version of the same thing:

David Wilson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim and Jennifer McGill" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: [DNA] Irish and Scottish and Frisian R1b - Another Question

> This seems like a good time to ask this question given the thread about the
> Irish, Scottish, etc R1b haplogroup. I would appreciate the experts
> commenting on my situation as well.
> I have recently had my DNA tested at FTDNA. The Y search ID is AY8UH.
> FTDNA said it is most likely R1b but there seems to be some differences from
> what I've seen as Irish or Scottish haplotypes. I have requested the
> Y-HAP-R1b tests as well. My "family lore" says my ancestors were Scots
> Irish and in fact, they came to the US on a ship from Belfast in 1822.
> In addition to the general comments, I am interested in what is unique or
> odd about my haplotype or specific markers.
> I am very new to the genetic genealogy area so any help would be very useful
> to me.
> Thanks for your time.
> Jim McGill
> ==============================
> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more:

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