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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1131755598


From: David Faux <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplotype Q and Autosomes
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:33:18 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <001701c5e71c$f4228250$71509045@Ken1>


Ken:

I have something that you do not have - access to the SNP tested FTDNA U of Arizona databases and there is not a shadow of a doubt about my Shetland Q, all of their matches are either with P36+ Britain, Scandinavia or Central Asia - none with the Americas (including Greenland Inuit who are in the database). The haplotypes tell the story. There is also the question of P36 versus M242 that has become an issue as we are now finding some P36- individuals who in Orkney were considered to be Q, M45 but not R1b or R1a. We will be SNP testing my Shetland samples with both markers to see if there is a difference between a subset of "Q" in the Northern Isles and others who have tested P36+. I suspect we will be seeing some P along with Q in the Northern Isles just to further complicate the matter.

David Faux.

Ken Nordtvedt <> wrote:
David,

Where can I see the publication that entirely disproves a possible Inuit
origin? If traders with Greenland brought back Q I would expect to see a
bit of it throughout the Viking empire or sphere of influence, whatever you
want to call it. From Dublin, to Isle of Man, to western and northern
Isles, to York, to Norway, etc; these guys got around. I included Viking
times as my first period of extensive trade between Europe and Greenland.
Bishops and furs and all sorts of things are recorded to have traveled both
ways. Then all this stopped and the European Greelanders vanished, but you
know all this lore.

I found a Bosch paper showing the Inuit Q and Q3, with the usual academic
peewee haplotypes of 5 or 6 markers. What's the disconnect between these
tabulated Q haplotypes from Greenland and the Q found back in Europe?

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplotype Q and Autosomes


> Ken:
>
> That hypothesis has been explored in depth and entirely disproven. In
> addition, Q is found in Norway and Sweden suggesting that the Northern
> Isles received their Q infusion during Viking times. 12/12 Matches
> between Shetland Q are with those from Norway, Sweden, and Iceland then
> Uzbekistan - none have any close matches whatsoever to Native Americans
> including Inuit.
>
> David Faux.
>
> Ken Nordtvedt wrote:
> Why aren't the Q found in Shetlands just Inuit genes brought back from
> Greenland by that colony's Viking founders or later folks trading back and
> forth with the Greenland settlements? For a few centuries there was much
> traffic, and then later somewhat after Columbus European contact with
> Greenland and its peoples started up again.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Faux"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplotype Q and Autosomes
>
>
>> David and Jim:
>>
>> Native American Y chromosome include Q3 (M3, M19), Q (P36, M242), P
>> (M45), and C (RPS4Y).
>>
>> Using Bortolini et al. (AJHG, 73:524-539, 2003) as an example, a total of
>> 347 Amerinds from South America were genotyped as follows:
>>
>> Q3 = 83%; Q = 9%; P = 4% and C = 0%
>>
>> Looking at 48 Na Dene of North America, the following figures applied:
>>
>> Q3 = 6%; Q = 25%; P = 63%; and C = 6%
>>
>> Depending on location in North and South America Q without the M3
>> derivation is actually quite common.
>>
>> David Faux.
>>
>
>
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