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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1131923392


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Red hair blue eyes etc
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:09:52 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <002301c5e8a0$de800370$9f98893e@Masterbedroom>


Gareth:

Yes, sadly enough, that's true. But I don't
necessarily think the same political, social and
economic processes that have led to the replacement of
English over Celtic language usage in places like
Ireland are the same as 4000-3000 years ago. These
people didn't have modern media - no TV, no
telephones, no leisurely travel. And in terms of
modern history, you have movement of various groups
from England into much of Wales, Scotland and Ireland
bringing English speakers. And furthermore, there's no
evidence that Celtic languages represented the "lingua
franca," as English has come to be seen, of 4000 years
ago that would motivate people even in the far reaches
of western Ireland to adopt the Celtic tongue.

More importantly, all these theories of
Celts=indigenous Britons ignores the archaeological
evidence (which I posted to the list a few months back
concerning Ireland in particular and can be found in
the list archives) of multiple continental invasions
stretching back to 4000-3000 BC into the British
Isles. These people had different burial styles,
different pottery, different housing styles. I'm not
saying that it isn't possible that an indigenous
genetic element continues to exist in contemporary
populations of the British Isles. But maintaining
that 95% of Ireland's population, for example, is
descended from that indigenous genetic element ignores
the linguistic and archaeological data.

Ellen Coffman

--- wrote:

> Ellen
>
> that's a pretty fair description of how the Celtic
> languages have *lost*
> ground in the western parts of the British Isles
> over the last 500 years or
> so - to the same nice little language now being
> learnt all around the world
> for all sorts of economic, political and cultural
> reasons.
> Language replacement happens and it can happen
> incredibly rapidly.
>
> (I agree with just about everything else you said)
>
> Gareth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ellen Levy" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Red hair blue eyes etc
>
>
> > Andrew & List:
> <snip>
> > Then how to explain the adoption of Indo-European
> > Celtic language in the British Isles, a language
> > family that is clearly not "indigenous." I
> suppose
> > they just decided it was a nice little language to
> > start speaking and did away with their other,
> > non-Indo-European language?
> <snip>
> > Ellen Coffman
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so
> much more.
> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection.
> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx
>
>

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