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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-11 > 1133138010


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Are the Jewish Cohanim J1 or J2
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:33:30 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <f3f05ce80511241833n4ec79884u73d380a8305aba34@mail.gmail.com>


Dienekes:

I read your blog on this issue. Interesting, but I'm
not sure I completely agree with your analysis. I'm
not necessarily arguing for an early Iron Age dating
of Israelite E3b. I frankly don't think we can
adequately date it to either the early or late Iron
Age periods (or later).

First, I don't think we can talk about E3b in general
among Ashkenazi without specifying sub-clades, because
I think some Jewish E3b is obviously from European
admixture while other results (E-M123 & E-M35*)
suggest Middle Eastern origin.

However, in my opinion, the lack of E3b among the
Samaritans is not instructive regarding time of entry
into the Israelite gene pool. This group has been so
decimated over time that founder effects and drift
(yes, Ken, I already note your objection) have played
a significant role in their current genetic picture.
They have decreased from an estimated million to only
146 individuals in 1917, and now only 640 people today
(representing a mere 4 families). Also, as you noted,
E3b IS present, just among their Cohanim family as
opposed to their non-priestly families. This presents
an interesting contrast with Sephardim and Ashkenazi
Cohanim, though I suspect that E3b is also present
among these Cohanim as well.

Interestingly, this study also indicates that J2 found
among the Samaritans fits the Kurdish modal haplotype,
not the CMH.

Finally, I think the Bene Israel study has some
significant flaws and does not necessarily support an
ancient Jewish origin for this Indian group.

Ellen Coffman

--- Dienekes Pontikos <>
wrote:

> I personally suspect that haplogroup E3b was not
> represented among
> very early Israelites. I base this suspicion on the
> fact that E3b is
> lacking or is found at trace frequencies in several
> populations of
> Israelite origin.
>
>
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2004/12/haplogroup-e3b-and-ancient-jews.html
>
> On 11/24/05, ellen Levy <>
> wrote:
> > The make-up of the early Iron Age Israelite
> population
> > is unknown, but probably consisted of J1, J2, E3b
> and
> > G. There was also probably a very low frequency
> of
> > R1b and other haplogroups. It is unknown whether
> Q
> > was part of the early Israelite population, but
> its
> > rarity among Middle Eastern groups argues against
> it.
> >
> > Ellen Coffman
> >
> --
>
> Dienekes' Anthropology Blog
> http://dienekes.blogspot.com
>
>
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