GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-12 > 1134834760
From: "Dale E. Reddick" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] RE: Are you missing the Geno boat? [12 markers - Dale?]
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:54:21 -0500
I'm sorry but I simply cannot recall what values were included along
with the prediction of Q. I sat on that prediction for awhile as we
collected more Y-STR results to demonstrate that the group of Reddicks
from Georgia were in fact related. Only after we had collected some 37
marker results showing who was and who wasn't related did I decide to
have the SNP test performed. My personal results page has changed
several times as the Y-STR upgrades came through and I just don't recall
the details regarding the Q prediction. I simply recall my puzzlement
over the Q prediction. Here are my first twelve markers, upon which
that initial prediction of Q was made.
19 Reddick *R1b* 14 24 14 10 14 15 12 12 13 13 13 29
After FTDNA took those eight or so months to report that I'm not Q and
report that I am R1b, then Ethnoancestry also reported that I'm not Q
and that I am R1b1c.
>In a message dated 12/16/05 7:55:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>Twelve markers are not enough in many cases. That is a truth that can't be
>>dismissed. I have R1b folks that match literally dozens of men of other
>>surnames. I don't know where 10% comes from with 12 markers; however, even
>>when 25 markers in many cases is not enough.
>John was referring to *haplogroup* predictions, where perhaps 10% of cases
>don't get "solid" predictions (11/12 or 12/12) based on their STR values. Are
>you saying that these R1b folks have close matches with other haplogroups?
>>Again, haplogroups are defined by SNPs not STRS. One gentleman here today
>>was told he was Q*. but a later SNP test confirmed R1b. Imagine his
>>feelings. How many more cases are like this ? It is time that all basic DNA
>>STR tests must also include a basic SNP test.
>Dale, can you reconstruct the basis for the prediction at the time? Did you
>have 11/12 or 12/12 matches with Q? You would have had a list of haplogroup
>matches, broken down into 12/12, 11/12, 10/12, 9/12, and 8/12 categories. If your
>best match is less than 11/12, and different haplogroups start to creep in,
>then there are no "precedents," and SNP testing is the only way to resolve the