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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-12 > 1135005572


From: "Andrew and Inge" <>
Subject: Dal Riata Modal Haplogroup
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:19:32 +0100


Dear John

John: The R1bSTR47Scots cluster, obviously came from Europe at some stage
after the LGM, when and by what route is the question. [...] At its
simplest it "evolved" in Britain.

So when you say it came from Europe are you suggesting that "it" was not yet
the Scots cluster at the time?

John: [...]it is generally accepted that R1bSTR19Irish and R1bSTR47Scots are
distinguishable from the background, and perhaps R1bSTR22Frisian is getting
close to it. For the rest there it is much less certainty. If the Scots
cluster was an illusion caused by convergence then by now it is almost
certain that we would have a S21+ amongst the Irish or Scots clusters based
on the numbers tested. Similarly, what is the likelihood of a geographically
localized convergence?

You put that well. I hope I mentioned somewhere that I am convinced about
the significance of *the cluster*, and you have played a role in convincing
me. But for the people looking at this from a genealogical or clan history
point of view there is a another question: could there have been scattered
convergence amongst *individual* families (both in the Scots homeland and
outside)? In other words, could some of the particular seeming Scots
families descend from a different part of the R1b family tree? To me that
seems possible.

John: Colla Uais. I hesitate to describe a cluster that has a modal and age
obviously pre-Roman and maybe several thousand years prior to that and is
spread throughout England and Scotland after a person who lived in ~500AD.
This is not to say there was not influential "sires" just that a distinct
and larger grouping should not be named after them.

So do you think there is yet enough evidence to say that Colla Uais or any
similar figure such as Fergus mac Erc was of the Scots lineage? This is not
a saracastic question by the way. Just looking around the web as an outsider
it does not seem that there is even an agreed upon family tree for Colla
Uais?

Regards
Andrew

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