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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-12 > 1135264387


From: Jon Spence <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Ethnoancestry Offers YSTR18 Haplotype Test--From the Administrator
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:13:07 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <200512211938.jBLJc1XK009443@mail.rootsweb.com>


Dear Administrator of

Thank you for identifying the difference between a webmaster and an administrator, as that's most helpful in addressing the problem.

Hmm, I wasn't aware that the comments that I made regarding the subject matter would hit a tender spot with the "administrator." It was encouraging to receive subsequent, private emails to my posting from other members about my calling a spade a spade for what it was - "sneaky" advertising."

Members who post regularly at this list emailed me, and they vividly and picturesquely expressed similar incidents and dissatisfaction with the past occurrences of blatant advertising. I assume you are aware of the incidents. .

So, it appears that my message was not some personal paranoia, since I and others recognized it as advertising too, but you didn't. Consequently, it seems as if you are defending something or somebody. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumption.It's kind of nice to know that others recognized this and were willing to express their thoughts.

Rather than take up the readers’ time, I’ll continue this discussion with you by private email. In the meantime, I hope you will take the time to review advertising techniques and hopefully take the necessary steps to quell future incidents of advertising to any degree - visible or cloaked.

You'll be receiving my communication shortly. I'm ending my part of this thread.

Cordially,
jon

Jim Bullock <> wrote:
The genealogy-dna mail list does not maintain a Web site. There is no
"webmaster" for the list. (Mail lists came into existence years before
there was a World Wide Web.)

As has been stated on the list many times in the past--complaints, comments,
and suggestions about the administration of the list should be addressed to
the administrator at , not to the list.

As others have already written, it is within the guidelines of this list to
discuss the DNA tests available and the firms that offer them. These
discussions help subscribers make informed decisions on what tests to take.
There are some restrictions that apply to representatives of the testing
services, but David is not one of those, and his message is within the list
guidelines. There was no "sneaky advertising" in the message.

Jim Bullock
Administrator, Genealogy-DNA Mail List

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Spence [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:43 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [DNA] Ethnoancestry Offers YSTR18 Haplotype Test

What a sneaky way to advertise a service or product that requires payment
for services rendered. I bring your attention to the subject line above. At
what point is a peddler required to set up his/her own websites for
advertising, pricing and in general, peddling items, instead of using a
public domain? I thought that would be an an eBAY thing?

WEBMASTER: Would you explain at what point you draw the line for
advertising products on this website, aside from not allowing prices quotes?

jon



David Wilson wrote:
Roxanne,

The RQMV2 haplotype has some differences in it that, in combination, set it
apart from the modal R1b haplotype over 37 markers. It stands at a genetic
distance of five from Modal R1b. Here's a comparison:

http://tinyurl.com/9nuvx

The differences occur at 390, 449, 464a, 460 and 570.

There are lots of matches at the 12-marker level, but that is because those
markers predominantly show the modal R1b values. And 390, while not modal,
shows a value that is not exactly rare in R1b.

In a collection of 4000+ R1b haplotypes, only a dozen and half show 449=28
AND 460=10. (David Faux knows one of them!) A couple have roots in Germany,
a couple more in Italy. Among those without specified European origins, the
surnames look sort of generally English -- maybe German, too, depending on
how you take Sanders.

The comparative evidence is way too thin to make a prediction, but I would
stay open to the possibility that your husband might turn out positive on
EA's S28 test. That's what David Faux is -- the only one in the public data
bases so far -- and you share the unusual 449/460 marker doublet with him.
To be sure, your husband also differs from the Faux haplotype at a couple of
places. That might point away from a possible positive test on S28. So it's
an open question.

I'm not advising the test, but I want you to be aware of it as a
possibility. In any event, your husband's haplotype is not as "plain
vanilla" as you originally thought.

David W.





-----Original Message-----
From: Roxanne Pendleton [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:12 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ethnoancestry Offers YSTR18 Haplotype Test

Yes, this is my husband's line and the Pendleton is my paternal line. My
husband is at Y search
RQMV2 Thank you for looking at it maybe there is something that would leap
out to someone else.


>From: "David Wilson"
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [DNA] Ethnoancestry Offers YSTR18 Haplotype Test
>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 06:10:45 -0800
>
>Roxanne,
>
>Just one point about differentiation: while one will always learn
>something from a panel of SNP tests, that doesn't mean you will always
>have an informative positive result in the package. Sometimes (as in my
>case so far), all the downstream SNPs will come back negative. That
>leaves me in haplogroup R1b1c* (or R1b3*, as we are using unofficial
>and official nomenclature systems simultaneously these days; whatever
>label you put on it, I am M269+).
>
>But remember that other people are getting SNP tests too. As some of
>them test positive on this SNP or that one, they and their kin are
>moved out of the undifferentiated collection. Today the R1b1c* clade
>is about 20 - 25% smaller than it was just six months ago, largely as a
>result of the new SNP tests offered by EthnoAncestry. As new SNPs are
>developed and people are tested for them, the "remainder" subclade
>becomes better defined by default.
>
>But I think there is a larger question you posed. If you are looking
>for matches to help with family history or finding possible kin among
>individuals with differing surnames, then you are better off ordering
>additional STRs than SNP refinements.
>
>There is a Pendleton haplotype in Ysearch (2YEUW), but that haplotype
>is unambiguously I1a. I take it this haplotype would reflect your
>paternal ancestry and is not your husband's results. Is his haplotype on
Ysearch?
>I'd
>be happy to take a look at it and tell you if anything jumps to my eye.
>You say his haplotype is modal at "almost every marker." But there may
>be something to be said about the ones where he differs.
>
>David Wilson
>Wilson Surname Project Co-Administrator
>
>
>
>On 12/19/2005 10:35:54 AM, Robert Stafford ()
>wrote:
> > A lot of R1bs only differ by a few markers from the modal. However,
> > in combination with the surname, 37 markers is more than sufficent.
> > Unless you have reason to believe that there is a false paternity,
> > you don't need to concern yourself with matches with other surnames.
> >
> > If he has a documented genealogy with gaps, it is possible that a
>fortuitous mutation might show up to tag his branch. However, this is
>really hit or miss and is expensive. I recommend this approach only
>after intitial deep testing of genealogies, so there will be enough
>donors to isolate the mutation.
> >
> > Bob Stafford
> >
> > Roxanne Pendleton wrote:
> > Perhaps you can give me some direction. I had my husband's DNA run
> > for 37 markers and found he is an Rb1 (M343). At almost every marker
> > his result is the same as the highest percentile of Rb1 people.
> > Nothing at all remarkable. Nothing. What if any, snps should I run
> > to differentiate him from the herd? Should I do additional markers
> > or snps? Curious.
> >
> >
> > >From: David Faux
> > >Reply-To:
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Re: [DNA] Ethnoancestry Offers YSTR18 Haplotype Test
> > >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 0
>
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>
>
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