GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-01 > 1136832869


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Y-DNA Haplogroup L in Italy
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:54:29 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <001d01c61503$acae0a10$79bf19ac@sasonb46c858c2>


Sorry to all - I keep writing Haplo. H when I should
be hitting the "L" key.

Sasson, you are talking about "Greek-Caucasian" and
"Indo-Iranian lineages" as if they really exist. What
is the "Greek-Caucasian lineage"?

As far as I know, there is no such thing as
"Indo-Iranian lineages." There are speakers of
Indo-Iranian languages, however.

By your mention of Eastern Europe, I assume you are
speaking of the steppe zone of Russia/Central Asia
from whence the Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians are
believed to have originated? This has become a
central region of study for the origins of haplogroup
R1a, but there is no genetic evidence I am aware of
linking L to these particular regions or to the early
Indo-Iranian pastoralists who eventually moved into
the region between the Persian Gulf and the Caspian
Sea.

In fact, the new Sengupta study on India contradicts
your theory (I'm at least relieved that you are now
presenting it as theory rather than as fact). I
suppose your theory could be supported if the L
samples from Greece and Italy fell into the new
L3-M357 sub-clade prevelant almost exclusively in
Pakistan or L*-M20, but almost completely absent from
India. Since David Faux has apparently SNP'd some
L's, does anyone know the particular sub-clades they
fall into?

However, if they are in L1-M76, then your theory is
much more difficult to support. Sengupta presents
evidence that L1-M76 arose in situ within the
boundaries of present-day India and subsequently
expanded towards peripherial regions during the
Holocene/Neolithic period. Ll-76 it occurs with much
greater frequency among the Davidian castes than in
Indo-European speakers or among the tribal groups of
India.

As for haplogroup K, as far as I know, there is no
genetic evidence linking it to the early Indo-Iranian
populations of Persia. I don't object to a theory
that K2 may have been present among the ancient Greeks
(of the Bronze Age), but it seems a big, unsupportable
jump from that theory to arguing for a Persian/Iranian
origin for K2. If you read the Flores paper, it gives
some percentages for K2 among populations in Spain. I
believe there is currently research being done to try
to establish a Phoenician origin for much of K2.

Ellen Coffman






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