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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-01 > 1136868116


From: "Mary Pointer" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Assyrian Heritage DNA Project
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:41:56 -0600
References: <000901c6154e$93a4a0b0$130110ac@macdonaldlaw.com>


Bull shit!
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark MacDonald<mailto:>
To: <mailto:>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] Assyrian Heritage DNA Project


Life is hard. I thought at least some folks have urged that we stop the
pointless bashing. If you want to use Family Tree, use it. If you don't
want to, don't. Kvetching helps noone. None of us has been crowned king.
We are simply skilled tool users who are now blessed with a number of
complementary tools.

Mark MacDonald

-----Original Message-----
From: Eli d S [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:31 PM
To: <mailto:>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Assyrian Heritage DNA Project

Just a comment on an aspect of FTDNA that I find troublesome. It is a
private database, unless I have tested with them I don't have access to
their records. The bigger their database becomes the worst off you will be
precisely because it is a private database. Although there are some 50,000
records in that database because I haven't paid for their overpriced tests I

don't have access to them, and so, I find that although their customers and
I could benefit from those records being on a public database that wont
happen because while it is true their customers could upload their results
to a public database they (FTDNA) know most wont, and clearly that is the
case as less than half do.

I stay away from FTDNA one because by comparison to say DNAHeritage.com
their products are twice as expensive or more, and most importantly their
database storing your information becomes 'proprietary' of sorts, with no
clear gains to you. Your goal is to be able to compare records with others,
that wont happen unless they have paid the price of admission at FTDNA, I
find it to be akin to the Windows situation, once they have enough clout
everybody must use their services and they will free to charge as much as
they want for instance MSWord is ten times more expensive than Openoffice
because they have the market cornered.


Eli




From: "Ed & Mary Yonan" <<mailto:>>
Reply-To: <mailto:>
To: <mailto:>
Subject: [DNA] Assyrian Heritage DNA Project
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:31:25 -0800

A few weeks ago another person and I started the Assyrian Heritage DNA
project, which will be focused to a siginificant degree on these goals:
* To help anyone of Assyrian descent, both male and female, gain a better
understanding of his or her ethnic identity and heritage.
* To help Assyrians learn the place of origin of their Assyrian ancestors.

My husband has already received his 37 marker YDNA and high resolution mt
DNA results and has received his SNP test results which place him in the R1a

Y-Haplogroup (SRY 10831.2-) and in the J* mtDNA haplogroup. He matches no
one else in the FTDNA database or Y-search on either his YDNA or mtDNA
markers. My husband's Y-search ID is UKF7K.

My husband's ancestors are NOT from Europe. He is Assyrian and his father
and all generations before him, that we know about, lived in an Assyrian
village in the Hakkari Mountains located in modern day Turkey. When my
father-in-law migrated to the USA in 1909 that area was part of the Ottoman
Empire. It was only after World War I that modern national boundaries were
drawn in that region. At that time the Hakkari Mountains fell within the
boundaries of modern day Turkey.

We have ordered the R1a deep SNP test from FTDNA. It will be interesting to

see what "twig" of the phylogenic tree the results will place him on.

Naturally, I want to gain an understanding of ancient haplogroups and how
they are relevant specifically to men and women who descend from the ancient

Assyrians. There is a website that includes a map of ancient Assyria, a
timeline of Assyrian history and other information.
http://www.aina.org/aol/peter/brief.htm#Emergence<http://www.aina.org/aol/peter/brief.htm#Emergence>;

As the above website explains, the ancient Assyrian Empire may have had its

beginnings as early as 2400 B.C. Most Assyrians lived in the same area of
the Middle East, the region known as Mesopotamia or the Fertile Crescent,
from 2400 B.C. until approximately 100 years ago, and some still live there.

For this reason, we will be focusing much more on deep ancestry than on
finding a modern-day cousin, although that may happen also.

It will be very interesting to discover whether Assyrians fall into a few or

several different haplogroups. Since the Assyrians conquered many different

nations and were in turn conquered by other nations from 2400 B.C. until the

Assyrian Empire was defeated in 612 B.C., is it likely that modern-day
Assyrians will belong to several Y and mtDNA haplogroups? On the other
hand, the Assyrians were one of the earliest groups to convert to
Christianity and have long been an ethnic and religious minority in the
Middle East. They have historically been quite endogamous. Would that
point toward the possibility that modern-day Assyrians will belong to a
small number of Y and mtDNA haplogroups? Answering these questions is the
goal of the Assyian Heritage DNA Project. However, I'd love to hear the
comments of members of this list on what you predict that we may learn.

I am hoping to get a variety of suggestions from the members of this list
about the type of DNA testing we should recommend to men and women
interested in participating in the Assyrian Heritage DNA project. Here are
my questions:

Which is a better approach for a project such as I have described....(1)
advise participants to test only 12 Y-DNA markers and/or the low-resolution

mtDNA markers and then do a SNP test to confirm the haplogroup or (2) advise

participants to test all 37 Y-DNA markers and/or the high-resolution mtDNA
markers?

If you suggest that it would be adequate to test only 12 Y-DNA markers
and/or the low-resolution mtDNA markers and then do a SNP test to confirm
the haplogroup, should we recommend that participants order their test from
National Geographic and then transfer their results to the FTDNA database?
My only concern about this approach is that it's more complicated to
announce the project and explain how participants can become members of the
Assyrian Heritage DNA Project. It's definitely a more circuitous approach
and important potential participants may never take the essential step of
transferring their Genographic results from the Geno database at NGS to the
private database at FTDNA. As you explained in another message: The transfer

process from NG to FTDNA is free. Once in the FTDNA database, a participant
would use the blue JOIN button in his/her new personal account page at FTDNA

to join a DNA Project. It only takes a few mouse clicks to do that. Does
anyone know if any FTDNA geographic or heritage project has used this
approach?

Thanks for your advise,

Mary Allison Yonan



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